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judgement or judgmental?
gregorydc:
Hello family,
I was reading a bunch of the newer topics here and a thought came to me, how do we know that these trials and tribulations we go through are judgements on us from God? Are these not the same troubles that everyone else goes through on this earth? What makes us sure that we are being judged, and not being egotistical in our difference of belief from other christians? I do hope that what we believe is true and right, that we are being judged, because I don't want to go through this life again, especially knowing that it will be worse than it is now. Has Ray spoken of this anywhere, or can anyone offer scripture to help?
Greg
John from Kentucky:
...What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this Job did not sin with his lips. Job 2:10
Kat:
Hi Greg,
Well why do we have trials and tribulation? Isn't it to reveal the carnal self in all of us? If we are God's chosen then He will reveal our sin that it may be overcome and that is the process, revealing overcoming. By the Spirit indwelling we are judging ourselves, we are striving to do better, we are beginning to be shaped into His image.
When we have sin (whatever it may be), God's Spirit will reveal it to us, then He causes us to hate it (does the world really hate sin?). The process moves along, from hating it so much, to eventually over time removing/overcoming whatever it is.
So these trials are what God specially prepares for His chosen, each person has their own circumstances designed for them, to create in them whatever God wants them to be. That is how God works through Christ in us to overcome and to prepare us for the kingdom.
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#trial -------------------
Not everything in the Bible is "easy" to understand. It takes God's spirit and it take wisdom. God supplies both.
God does send custom made trials to all of us. He does NOT, however, do the "trying" in these trials.
A trial is where evidence is presented to determine one's guilt or innocence. God is far above us carnal matters. God already knows IN ADVANCE what we will or will not do under our trials.
Therefore, He does not determine from the evidence whether we passed or failed the trial; whether we are guilt or innocent. The trial is for OUR benefit, not HIS!
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#afraid -----------------
I don't have "doubts about God" nor do I question how He is running His Creation. That doesn't mean that I completely understand everything, however.
There are just so many basic problems and trials that frustrate most people: Health, social, financial, mental and emotional, and spiritual. Everything else comes under one of those categories. Few people suffer from all of these at the same time--some, however, do. These problems humble us. Humility is the first step in coming to God. One cannot MAKE himself humble, however. And it does no good to PRETEND to be humble. God has ways of accomplishing this. Just BEING poor, sick, rejected and emotionally unstable, does not prove one is humble. It is a thing of the heart and the spirit.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#temptation -------------
Why would Jesus tell us to pray that God should NOT lead us into temptation [Gk: trial] when, in reality, we DO go through trials?
After all, Jesus was led of the spirit into the wilderness for the express purpose of being "tried."
Then James comes along and says
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, NEITHER TEMPTS HE ANY MAN." (James 1:13).
And if that is bad enough, James first tells us in James 1:2 to
"...COUNT IT ALL JOY WHEN YE FALL INTO DIVERS TEMPTATIONS"!
What is going on here?
Although this might sound like a triple contradiction, it is not.
First let's be abundantly clear that God, HIMSELF, does not ever do the actual "trying or tempting."
"And the SERPENT said unto Eve... And when the woman SAW that the tree was good for food, and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES ['...the lust of the eyes ... is NOT OF the Father...' John 2:16], and a tree to be DESIRED to make one wise, she TOOK of the fruit thereof, and DID EAT... And the woman said, THE SERPENT BEGUILED [deceived] ME..." (Gen. 3:6 & 13).
"And lead us not into temptation but DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE [Satan]" (Matt. 6:13).
"...when YOU FALL into divers [various] temptations [trials]..." (James 1:2).
"But every man is tempted, when he is DRAWN AWAY OF HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. THEN when lust has conceived, it brings forth SIN: and sin, when it is finished [full grown], brings DEATH" (James 1:14-15).
From all of these examples it is abundantly clear that it is not the OBJECT that is the TEMPTATION, but rather the temptation COMES FROM WITHIN, not from without. It was not the "tree" that MADE Eve lust. It is not the "pretty woman" that MAKES a man lust. The LUST IS IN THE MIND, IN THE HEART, and therefore, the trial IS IN THE HEART AND MIND, not in the literal flesh.
And so we pray that God should not lead us into temptation, but rather DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE [Satan] WHO DOES LEAD US INTO TEMPTATION.
But notice again, we pray that we should be "DELIVERED." We cannot be 'delivered' from something UNLESS WE ARE ALREADY IN IT! God intends that we get "IN IT"--trials and temptations, which are GOOD FOR US, AFTER we have gone through them.
The longer we live the Christian walk, the better we should get at this. Hence Paul tells us,
"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged" (I Cor. 11:31).
The MORE we 'judge ourselves' the LESS we are "lead into temptation." We learn to cut it off at the pass, as they say. It is by God's divine counsel that we are led into temptation (even if God never DIRECTLY tries or tempts us), and it is by God's divine counsel that He delivers us from the "evil one."
Hope that helps a little.
God be with you,
Ray
loretta:
--- Quote ---I don't want to go through this life again, especially knowing that it will be worse than it is now.
--- End quote ---
:)
Good thoughts Gregory.
Tks for sharing Kat. Ray couldn't be more right. Growing up I was Miss Perfect, till I got married. Then out of the abundance of the heart the mouth spewed venom, which shocked me as well! It took a difficult marriage to reveal what was deeply imbeded and God knew what it would take to purge it all out. The easiest way out would have been to deliver myself out of this evil, but that would not have accomplished what God had desired. Yea, He hath delivereth me out of evil, but in His own time, as I slowly and painfully learnt my lessons. :) :) :)
microlink:
It is not that uncommon for the elect to have similar thoughts on occasion as you mention. We may ask is God really working with me? How am I different from the ones who are not the chosen?
--- Quote --- I was reading a bunch of the newer topics here and a thought came to me, how do we know that these trials and tribulations we go through are judgements on us from God? Are these not the same troubles that everyone else goes through on this earth? What makes us sure that we are being judged, and not being egotistical in our difference of belief from other christians? I do hope that what we believe is true and right, that we are being judged, because I don't want to go through this life again, especially knowing that it will be worse than it is now. Has Ray spoken of this anywhere, or can anyone offer scripture to help?
Greg
--- End quote ---
As Kat has pointed out regarding Rays comments in :
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#afraid -----------------
I don't have "doubts about God" nor do I question how He is running His Creation. That doesn't mean that I completely understand everything, however.
There are just so many basic problems and trials that frustrate most people: Health, social, financial, mental and emotional, and spiritual. Everything else comes under one of those categories. Few people suffer from all of these at the same time--some, however, do. These problems humble us. Humility is the first step in coming to God. One cannot MAKE himself humble, however. And it does no good to PRETEND to be humble. God has ways of accomplishing this. Just BEING poor, sick, rejected and emotionally unstable, does not prove one is humble. It is a thing of the heart and the spirit.
Living a life in the flesh is fraught with difficulties for the majority of mankind. All die.
The conversion process is a road with many obstacles and persecutions for a follower of Christ.
Rom_5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom_8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom_12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
2Co_1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
2Ti_3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Once the truth of God's Word has been made known to a person by God, he or she is on the road to the Kingdom. Most of those who are on this forum have been recipients of the truth and have an understanding of Holy Scripture and that only happens if God is involved in our lives. One of the very elect.
It is up to us individually to yield to His will in humility. How does one know if they are converted and are a true follower of Christ? this is a profound question that you ask! It only by the indwelling of the Holy spirit that we are in Him and He in us. No on else knows if we are truly converted, but God knows, and that is what is important. Just because someone says they are a Christian means very little.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
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