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Author Topic: Where I go, you cannot follow  (Read 3144 times)

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lilitalienboi16

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Where I go, you cannot follow
« on: September 29, 2013, 04:16:17 PM »

So I had an interesting thought...

John 13:36 Simon Peter asked him, “Lord, where are you going?” Jesus replied, “Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later.”

Sometimes, when I think of my struggles with the flesh, carnality and the beast, I can't help but wonder if this is what Jesus meant. I want to follow you Lord.. but you've gone to where I cannot follow :(

And so the story goes...

John 13:37-38 "Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I WILL LAY DOWN MY LIFE FOR THY SAKE." Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice."

Matthew 26:75 "And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. AND HE WENT OUT, AND WEPT BITTERLY."

Revelation 13:7 "And it was given unto him [the beast] TO MAKE WAR with the saints, AND TO OVERCOME THEM: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

We cannot follow Him now... but one day, He will give us the power to follow Him in all His ways.

This is just something that came into my head today. Feel free to agree, disagree, share your thoughts.
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

gregorydc

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 11:20:24 PM »

Thank you
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indianabob

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 02:08:50 AM »

Sounds right to me.
The spirit of God puts lots of interesting stuff into our heads.
The blessings just keep coming.
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dodrill

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 09:27:29 AM »

Got me thinking too Bob - Where Jesus went - are paradise and heaven the same thing?
Ray spoke of the kingdom of the heavens being a realm (not what christianity teach as an after life destination)
I agree with Ray's insight that we are the heavens (in our spiritual place inside of us when we are converted)
But what or where is paradise?
Another realm where we go after death and resurrection - when we are cleansed from our sins?
Or is it here and now - or are they the same?
Sorry Bob - I posted my thoughts here (from my last post regarding what Jesus said to the thief on the cross) as they seem to be similar to your question :)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 10:09:39 AM by hayley »
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zvezda

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2013, 10:30:50 AM »

John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

We all are struggling with the our flesh and carnal mind, we want to overcome but often fail, I think it's part of the journey when you are following Jesus. If you are not following Him, you won't even bother to struggle.

Here is an excerpt from Mobile Conference 2009, hopefully will help with your struggles:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.20.html

If you looked on a woman or you don’t even look, you just meditate in your mind to lust after a woman, are you guilty of adultery? Yes. 

If you just ’think’ about doing good to your fellow man and humanity and straightening out the evil and the wretchedness of this world… if you just ‘think’ about doing that, are you guilty of thinking those good things? Yes.

Will you receive a big reward for that? Yes.
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Kat

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 11:46:22 AM »


Hi Hayley,

Got me thinking too Bob - Where Jesus went - are paradise and heaven the same thing?
Ray spoke of the kingdom of the heavens being a realm (not what christianity teach as an after life destination)
I agree with Ray's insight that we are the heavens (in our spiritual place inside of us when we are converted)
But what or where is paradise?
Another realm where we go after death and resurrection - when we are cleansed from our sins?
Or is it here and now - or are they the same?

Luke 23:43  And He said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

2Co 12:3  And I know that this man was caught up into paradise--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--

Rev 2:7  He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.'

I believe that the word "paradise" used in those Scriptures and the place that Jesus said “Where I am going, you cannot follow now” (John 13:36) in Alex's post, is the heavenly realm. That realm is God's abode where there is perfect righteousness and truth and the "Tree of Life" - Jesus Christ, is the central figure in the heavenly realm - paradise.

Here is where Ray did speak on paradise.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,979.0.html ----

It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context.  Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He?  No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise."  But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant.  Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse:  "Verily I say unto thee this day:  With me shalt thou be in Paradise."  But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution?  God tells us how to solve this verse and every other verse of Scripture:  "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
 
But is this what theology does?  No, theologians say this this verse EXPLAINS ITSELF --"That VERY DAY the thief went with Christ TO HEAVEN."  Oh really?  That is not what the REST of the Bible teaches.
 
DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that?  Is there any Scriptural justification for that?  NO, no there isn't.  In what way do the Scriptures liken paradise to heaven?  Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures.  "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden."
 
There is the mention of only two primary "gardens" in Scripture: The "tree of life" (Gen. 2:9) is found in Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:9).  And what else is that Garden of Eden called?  Answer: "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (Rev. 2:7).
 
[1]  The "Garden of Eden."  Was that garden, "heaven?"  What did we find in that garden:  (1) the knowledge of EVIL, (2) rebellion and SIN, (3) a flaming SWORD, (4) the pronouncement of CURSES, and (5) the lying SERPENT (Satan--Rev. 12:9).
 
[2]  The "Garden of Gethsemane."  Was that garden "heaven?"  What did we find in that garden?  (1) The Apostles DESERTED Jesus in this garden,  (2) Judas BETRAYED Jesus in this garden, (3) an army of wicked elders, scribes and chief priest with clubs and SWORDS, (4) Jesus is carried away from this garden to be CRUCIFIED, and (5) This garden contained the TOMB in which the DEAD Jesus was placed.
 
Do any of this evils in these two paradise gardens sound like "heaven" to you?  I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43.  Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God.  This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does.  That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
 
This is a large subject involving the different resurrections, and the Judgments of God. It will take a sizable paper to cover it properly and I cannot do it now. Hope you understand.
 
God be with you,
Ray
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dodrill

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 12:33:33 PM »

Thank you Kat :)
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2013, 02:00:57 PM »

John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

We all are struggling with the our flesh and carnal mind, we want to overcome but often fail, I think it's part of the journey when you are following Jesus. If you are not following Him, you won't even bother to struggle.

Here is an excerpt from Mobile Conference 2009, hopefully will help with your struggles:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.20.html

If you looked on a woman or you don’t even look, you just meditate in your mind to lust after a woman, are you guilty of adultery? Yes. 

If you just ’think’ about doing good to your fellow man and humanity and straightening out the evil and the wretchedness of this world… if you just ‘think’ about doing that, are you guilty of thinking those good things? Yes.

Will you receive a big reward for that? Yes.


Great input Zvezda! I certainly meant in the context of struggling with the flesh. It feels at times that when I reflect on my struggles the Lord has gone to where I cannot follow but it is entirely Him who gives us the power through the helper, His Spirit, to walk after Him in those moments that we are able to. It is entirely a process, the old man must die every day, we must be burried with Christ, baptized into His death daily and judged daily. Judgement has began at the House of God!
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

lilitalienboi16

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2013, 02:05:19 PM »

Also to Kat

Thanks for the great post, a great reminder of the differences between "pardise" and "heaven." Such a fascinating subject!
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

se7en

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Re: Where I go, you cannot follow
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2013, 02:23:04 PM »

Absolutely fascinating!

To expound upon Ray's email....

The disciples couldn't follow Christ where he was going yet because they had not yet been converted. They had yet to receive the spirit of Truth to have their eyes opened and ears opened in order to follow the Christ. They were still following after the fleshy "Let's make this man our earthly King and overthrow the Romans" Jesus.

It wasn't until penticost that they received the spirit of Truth (Christ) and became a part of that great cloud of witnesses (God's Word) and a part of that spirit. The kingdom of Heavens is within our Heavens (plural, in each person) because we are the kingdom of God. The kingdom of Heavens is a dimension that sets between our ears that God will eventually cause every man to die to the old Adam and be re-made into the image of Christ.

This is a part of the process of God creating (currently creating) mankind into His image.  All done within the Heavens, the inner working of God within each person.

Beautiful :)
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~Se7en
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