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[dodrill]

I learn every day Kat  - thank you:)

[Ricky]

Just my thoughts on this one, sometimes i like to talk too. So is the church really bad? Ask any church christian, Why he or she goes to church!! They will all lie to you and say one of two things, either I love God, or I believe what the Bible says, etc, along those lines. They do not tell the truth with that question. Why love God when you can just go to church and Buy your salvation. The easy way in. And the truth is, HELL. The fear of going there, that's why I went to church, that's the truth. Rev.18.4 Come out of Her my people, to me this could mean, not the church itself, but come out of the Lies, that are taught there, that religious belief system that goes back thousands of years. Come out of that way, system of garbadge. I think we are to forgive the people in the church because they do not know what they do. As for us we need to thank God for the power He gave to us, the power to believe the truth. He has not given that power to them, yet. I can them Klingons. The belief in a Hell that does not exist is very powerful for Satan to play with in all religions. As for those pastors, all I like to say is, good luck.  Bless you all.  Ricky

[thewatchman]

It's easy to scapegoat the church. I am not inclined to do so. I had my time of anti-church but I'm over it now. I had many wonderful experiences at my church. It is likely none of us would be here without having gone through it first. Which fits the pattern.
When Paul went out to the gentiles he first started at the small Jewish communities in each city. New converts will come from the church just as new Christians came out of the synagogues. The church was hijacked by Rome and various factions from the moment it started. People seeking power over the desires of sincere believers. As it is God who will draw them, the least we can do is not bear them ill will, but welcome them with mercy and love and not bitterness or beat them over the head with what we know and what the church has got wrong caused by some deep seated need for us to be more right then them. That is not a fruit of the spirit. Clothe them, feed them, keep them safe and warm, then the lessons can start. 

[onelovedread]

John
I like your analogy. We ought to be like Lot who did not look back at Sodom (the false church) rather than his wife.
I love your point!