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IN the day of Great slaughter, when the towers fall

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Kat:


--- Quote ---I was thinking it makes more sense if people stop having normal lifestyle during the tribulations, just like the 7 days between Noah entered the ark and when the flood came.
--- End quote ---

Okay zvezda I get what you are saying, the Scripture are to the elect and the 'tribulation' happens during their lives as they are being prepared. Noah was being persecuted by the people while he was building the ark, not after he entered it.

John 16:33  These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."


http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm -------------

And notice what John tells us in Revelation:

"And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Thy judgments" (Rev. 16:7).

It is not by escaping tribulation that we enter God's Kingdom (as in the unscriptural rapture theory), but by going "through much tribulation."

The phrase "The great tribulation" is used hundreds of thousands of times by the Church, and yet (just as there is no such thing as "THE antichrist") there is no such phrase in the Bible as "The great tribulation." Oh there is tribulation and great tribulation alright, but not just one called "The" tribulation.
v

"Immediately after [does everyone understand the difference between 'before' and 'after?'] ...immediately after the tribulation of those days.... He [Jesus] shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet [I Cor. 15:52], and they shall gather together His elect [for the first time, I might also add] from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt. 24:29 & 31).

One other major point: Clearly this verse and others show that Christ returns "after the tribulation of those days." "But in those days, after the tribulation... shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His Elect..." (Mark 13:24 & 27). 

And Jesus is said to come in wrath:

"...hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of His wrath is come..." (Rev. 6:16-17)

"And the seventh angel sounded... [the seventh trump is the last trump, I Cor. 15:52] ...and Thy wrath is come..." (Rev. 11:18)

The days of "great tribulation" end at Christ's presence, and the day of "His wrath" begins at His presence. They are two separate and different events, and different judgments on different people for different purposes. If you have not seen or do not understand the absolute differences in Scripture between tribulation and affliction versus wrath and indignation, then be sure to read my ten-page section dealing with it in detail, in my paper "Exposing the Secret Rapture Theory."

Tribulation is almost exclusively administered to God's people.
--------------------------------------------------------

Rev 7:9  After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
Rev 7:13  Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
Rev 7:14  And I said to him, "Sir, you know."  So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Maybe we cannot resolve the way we are seeing this here, but we are all still studying and learning these things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

zvezda:

--- Quote ---the Scripture are to the elect and the 'tribulation' happens during their lives as they are being prepared. Noah was being persecuted by the people while he was building the ark, not after he entered it.

--- End quote ---

yeah, I know the elect are going through trials and tribulations, I know judgement begins at the house of God.

So let me get this straight -  Besides the tribulations that the elect are going through in their lives, there is no such thing as "end time tribulations", correct? Because from Dennis's post, I got the impression that Ray also thought there would be end time tribulations.


I am also stuck with this verse:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

What kind of tribulation are the elect going through that hasn't taken place from the beginning of the world until now, and never will again? I thought whatever an elect was going through, it's nothing new, it happened before, and it would happen again to other elect?

Kat:

Well zvezda, I have my opinions, but I just do not feel I can continue this discussion on something that Ray did not teach on. Now if you are interested pm's are another way to discuss things as well and I'm just going to leave it at that.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Ian 155:
Not to sure about all the prophetic stuff however the whole flood ,married ,giving in marriage,like a thief etc is Christ coming in us this is seemingly a process whereby Christ is formed in us by the Father " it is now no longer I that live but Christ in me' so yes I believe I have the spirit of God and all these things such as idols ,towers etc are coming down - seems the process is.... at that time,woe to those who are pregnant or nursing when this happens there were 2 at the mill grinding, one was taken etc [separation] first, exclusion, hated by all men etc get the pic ?

When Jesus starts clearing Gods temple ,using a whip ,turning over tables [or everything we have been taught by life in this world starts becoming strangely dimmer etc ] then you have no choice but to live by faith it seems


I dont think one can prepare for this event either

the coming of our Lord in us is like no other, its terrifying according to Moses, Daniel and John

Yes Alex I have read the towers papers however I am referring to Rays main thrust throughout all his material ....

as I understand it

lareli:
Isaiah 9:10

10 The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.

On 9/11 The bricks fell down and a single Sycamore tree was uprooted. On 9/12 Tom Daschel quoted Isaiah 9:10 in response to the events of the day prior. No one had yet known any tree had been uprooted. Tom Daschel meant for those words to bring comfort to the peple but Isaiah 9:10 is actually Israels defiant spirit towards God who was giving them a chance to return to Him. On the same day as Tom Daschel quoting Isaiah 9:10, John Kerry says that the US should right away commit to rebuilding a world trade center tower to show the world our defiance.

Fast forward a couple years and the new trade center tower is underway using a humungous hewn stone as the corner stone and a big ceremony ensues around this hewn stone. Also that sycamore tree that was uprooted is cast into a bronze sculpture and placed on wall street. Where the sycamore originally was planted, they went ahead and replaced it with a cedar and call it the tree of hope with a similarly symbolic ceremony as the hewn stone. Some say it wasnt a cedar, others say it was or closest thing to it... I dunno. Im not an arbhorist (spelling).

Three years after 9/11 John Edwards quoted Isaiah 9:10, again as a rallying cry but not knowing the actual meaning of the verse.

7 years after 9/11 we had the stock market crash (remember the sculpture of the sycamore is on wall st.) where the market crashed 777 points. 777.67 to be exact. Afterwards similar calls of "we will rebuild, we will rebuild" go out from the mouths of the nations leaders including the current potus after his election. The potus also writes on one of the beams used in the new trade center tower, "we will rebuild, we will come back stronger"

Whether any of this means anything, I have my thoughts, but I really dont know. At the very least it would make for a good movie huh?

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