Hi largeli,
Here is a couple of places where Ray spoke about the thief on the cross and paradise.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6936.0.html --------------
Dear Harris: I do not mean to put a kink in your armor, but I will give you just a little instruction on one of your major premises:
"Lu:23:42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. The thief was asking Jesus to remember him when he came into or established his kingdom {The millennial reign} and notice the unexpected answer he received.
Lu:23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. He said today, not tomorrow or a thousand years from now but that today he would be with him in paradise. Now your answer would normally be ‘oh yeah’ when we die we will be with him..."
If this verse of Scripture is true according to your interpretation, then it contradicts most of the major teachings in the entire Bible concerning, repentance, overcoming, producing much fruit, enduring to the end, and resurrection of the dead. One cannot pervert the entire Word of God by merely misplacing a comma (,). Here are better renderings of Luke 23:43:
"And Jesus said to him, 'Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.'" (Concordant Literal New Testament).
"And he said unto him—Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise" (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible).
Even you gave Scripture showing that the wages of sin is "DEATH." Why do you then deny it in your paper. "Jesus DIED for our sins according to the Scriptures." He was not merely "crucified for our sins." No, HE D-I-E-D. And when people DIE, Harris, they are DEAD. I can't believe that it would be necessary for me to provide a Scripture to prove such an elementary concept, but I will:
Jos 1:1 Now after the DEATH of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,
Jos 1:2 Moses My servant is DEAD..."
Well there you have from God Almighty Himself. When a person DIES, he is DEAD. So when you change that to some other unscriptural nonsense, you are treading in dangerous territory. Jesus was NOT in the Christian hell of eternal torture, nor was He preaching to spirits in some pagan hell, neither was he in a place called "paradise." Jesus was doing in the tomb exactly what He was prophesied to do and what He was commissioned to do by His Father--He died, and was therefore DEAD, until His Father Resurrected Him FROM THE DEAD.
Jesus' Father did not resurrect Jesus of Hell or from Paradise. Jesus was DEAD in the tomb until early Sunday morning, and so was the thief DEAD.
Now the difference between these two deaths is that Jesus was resurrected from the dead, but the thief was NOT--he is still dead, awaiting resurrection. If Jesus was not DEAD when He DIED for our sins, then you don't have a Saviour, Harris! And neither does anyone else! This is mighty important stuff you are contradicting in your paper. Do you not pay attention to the many hundreds of Scriptures that refute you paper?....
Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the DEAD, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
Harris: If Jesus "rose from the DEAD" how say you that He was NOT EVEN DEAD TO BEGIN WITH? If Jesus "rose from the DEAD" how say you that there is no resurrection of the the DEAD THIEF," but that he is presently LIVING in a place called "paradise?"
I am sorry I don't have time to critique your entire paper, but I receive many requests to read hundreds and thousands of pages of papers, books, Internet sites, etc., but I just am not able. So I cannot comment on your entire paper. However, I hope my little critique on this one point does not anger you.
God be with you,
Ray
PS Another minor point: The thief did not ASK to be with Jesus in Paradise, did he? NO, he did not. He asked Jesus to "remember him when Jesus came in His kingdom." Now then, Did Jesus say, "Yes, of course, I tell you that TODAY you with be with Me in My kingdom?' Did Jesus answer Him thus? NO. Well what in the world then did Jesus mean that the thief would be with Him [at some future date, not "today," but "shall be with Me," which is future tense] "in paradise?"
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,979.0.html --------
It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context. Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He? No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise." But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant. Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse: "Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise." But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution? God tells us how to solve this Verse and every other verse of Scripture: "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
But is this what theology does? No, theologians say this this verse EXPLAINS ITSELF--"That VERY DAY the thief when with Christ TO HEAVEN." Oh really? That is not what the REST of the Bible teaches.
DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradis to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden."
There is the mention of only two primary "gardens" in Scripture: The "tree of life" (Gen. 2:9) is found in Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:9). And what else is that Garden of Eden called? Answer: "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (Rev. 2:7).
[1] The "Garden of Eden." Was that garden, "heaven?" What did we find in that garden: (1) the knowledge of EVIL, (2) rebellion and SIN, (3) a flaming SWORD, (4) the pronouncement of CURSES, and (5) the lying SERPENT (Satan--Rev. 12:9).
[2] The "Garden of Gethsemane." Was that garden "heaven?" What did we find in that garden? (1) The Apostles DESERTED Jesus in this garden, (2) Judas BETRAYED Jesus in this garden, (3) an army of wicked elders, scribes and chief priest with clubs and SWORDS, (4) Jesus is carried away from this garden to be CRUCIFIED, and (5) This garden contained the TOMB in which the DEAD Jesus was placed.
Do any of this evils in these two paradise gardens sound like "heaven" to you? I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43. Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God. This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does. That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
God be with you,
Ray