> General Discussions
Just need to vent how about you?
rick:
Hi Kat,
I see every fruit of the spirit in me that is mentioned in the bible but also some fruits of the flesh too. I get confused sometimes when I hear this talk of works. At this point I do believe God does it all through us, but having said that I will also say so much I don't know or understand but I trust more in God today than yesterday, for all that happens in my life.
All I say is the lords will be done in me as its done in heaven. If God does not show me then how can I know but if God does show me then how can I not know ?
Anyways you have me thinking about the things you said. You know, the more I learn here the more I realize how much I don't know.
Love and peace to all.
DougE6:
Hi Rick
you wrote "I think if God wants me to sit on the couch, can I do otherwise ? Or if God wants me to jump off the couch can I do otherwise ?"
Clearly God is the arranger of circumstance and your will will respond just how He knows you will, but I am not sure how productive it is to think in the manner as that paste off your prior post implies.
None of us know what God has planned for anyone of us for tomorrow or next year or even 5 minutes from now. Maybe He is going to arrange circumstances so that a deep character flaw festering inside will come to the surface and you will act on it. With some very negative consequences for you or others.
The actual point of God's action may have been to show you what was in your heart so you could repent. So you could experience first hand the consequences and the pain that disobedience and practicing sin will cause you and others. Or maybe to show again how ruled you are by your weaknesses. Or all of the above. Or other things to be revealed later.
I don't think thinking...this was God's will for me to do this and so I had no choice...so I did it... is the productive approach. Knowing full well that He is the arranger and causer of circumstance and you are the learner and the repenter and the one needing discipline and judgement is the correct attitude.
As Ray has said...God does not hold hold a gun to our heads. We always make a choice, and this choice reflects our inner values and whether we are led of the spirit or our flesh. So we OWN our choice because we MADE it, even if it was a lock that we would make that choice. If we make a disobedient choice then we need to repent that that weakness is in us... we are not in the spirit and we are in the weak weak flesh.
So I think the productive approach is always to try with EFFORT to choose the good. If I fail, then I know that I am either in the flesh contrary to what I think of myself or I need some more work done inside. Of course repent and ask God for the help is the key. But if you never try to resist, if you do not struggle, if you say..this is merely God's plan that I do this sin...how will you ever deeply learn the lessons?
I think the doctrine of God's sovereignty must never be used as an excuse not to try to give effort. Or not to work with what God has given you to help others without waiting for a gong to ring in the sky. The Scriptures tell us what to do all through them. If we belong to Him, if we call Him Lord, we will act of them.
loretta:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 26, 2013, 10:40:24 AM ---
I don't think thinking...this was God's will for me to do this and so I had no choice...so I did it... is the productive approach.
--- End quote ---
I think that you are still preaching to the choir DougE. None of us here at BT, having understood and embraced the truths of the lake of fire, free-will and the sovereignty of God think this way - that I had no choice...so I did it. Ofcourse we know full well that He is the arranger and causer of circumstance and that we are the learner and the repenter and the one needing discipline and judgement. We wouldn't be here if we didn't.
We would still be in Babylon, but we're not.
You talk of productive approach and disobedient choices as if we are really free to choose. I remember something that Dave said in another thread long ago - I don't try to conform my life to the Bible, but use it to understand what's happening in my life - or something along those lines. None of us here are willful rebellious sinners using the free will argument as license to sin. But looking back we can see God's sovereign hand in our lives working for our good.
microlink:
Very good post Loretta. :)
Dave in Tenn:
Two victories:
1. Victory over racial bigotry. It took a heap of good and bad examples, growing desire to follow the good and not follow the bad, hundreds of usually seemingly unrelated life experiences not entered into by my own will or choice, the loss of television (especially local news) for about 6 years--again not by choice but by acquiescence, and events in the world and the culture all through my life (large and small) that had impact on me, and myriad choices, tests of those choices, and tests by and from others, humility and humiliations--all this over the course of decades.
2. Overnight (relatively speaking) the change in my "language" from a near constant stream of profanity and invective to the absence of that and the growing presence of "blessing", whether that was for my 'circumstances' (all of God) or for all those pesky other people in the world who I knew were also in His hands.
I can't say that there aren't those to whom "the salvation of all" and the "absolute sovereignty of God" are little more than doctrinal curiosities. But that wasn't what happened to me. Though I am far from perfect, SIMPLY BELIEVING was what started the work in me which He has promised to continue. And so far, He has.
Now then: Of those two, which was "God working in me to will and to do His good pleasure"? One took decades and untold thousands of twists and turns, and required my participation since it all was happening to ME. The other took a few hours at most and I didn't know that it had happened until it was all over and I looked back. One came about after much struggle. The other fell in my lap. Both were "overcoming" and could not, as it is axiomatic, have come about without what preceded them.
Rick, I know what you mean when you say that "do good" is often accompanied by someone wanting to tell you just HOW. We all came from that, and it is perfectly understandable to be wary. In my view, that TOO is overcoming...and in NO SMALL WAY.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version