Looking for clarification on the sheep and the goats.

[Abednego]

I thought there were two resurrections.  The first was the elect and the second was everyone else at the White Throne Judgement.  But now that doesn't make sense to me with the separation of the sheep and goats.  If the sheep are the elect (few) and the goats are the called (many)  to be separated they would both need to be resurrected at the same time.

Would appreciate some clarification on this.  Thanks.

[lilitalienboi16]

I thought there were two resurrections.  The first was the elect and the second was everyone else at the White Throne Judgement.  But now that doesn't make sense to me with the separation of the sheep and goats.  If the sheep are the elect (few) and the goats are the called (many)  to be separated they would both need to be resurrected at the same time.

Would appreciate some clarification on this.  Thanks.

one ressurection.

The revelation verse that says "and the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years was over" is spurious.

[microlink]

Two ressurections:

CLV -John 5:29 and those who do good shall go out into a resurrection of life, yet those who commit bad things, into a resurrection of judging

[Kat]

There are different ways the Scripture speak of the resurrection, there is the parable of the sheep and the goat.

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
v. 33  And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
v. 34  Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

So when the sheep/elect are told "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world," that will be the first resurrection. If there is a "first" then that certainly indicates there is at least another and that is the goats, those which are raised in condemnation to go into the lake of fire.

Mat 25:41 Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left, 'Go from Me, you cursed, into the fire eonian, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers."

Christ said that there will be a resurrection of life, for the elect and the rest to a resurrection of condemnation.

John 5:28  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
v. 29  and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished (the first part of this verse is spurious). This is the first resurrection.

The elect are raised (and changed) to meet Christ is the air (1Thess 4:17), that is the first resurrection.

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

Christ is ready to reign and He will first raise the elect in preparation to rule/judge the rest of the dead. Then, with the elect, He begins His reign and the resurrection of the rest of the dead that seems to follow very soon after the first resurrection.

Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
       And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
       And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
       And those who fear Your name, small and great,
       And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[cjwood]

hi abednego, the email to and from ray below might also provide some more clarification for you.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5028.0.html

claudia

[G. Driggs]

Thanks for that link Claudia. Seems Ray says that there is ONE resurrection with TWO CLASSES of people and not two separate resurrections. Or am I misunderstanding this?

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5028.0.html

Dear Angelica:

        There are not two resurrection for the same person, but rather two classes of people who are resurrected, and the Elect are said to be in the "first" or "former" resurrection.  "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST [or former] resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). Now this is some question as to whether this verse is really Scripture or whether it was added to the manuscript. We still have conformation of two classes of people resurrected from other Scriptures:

        "...that there shall be a resurrection of the [1] JUST, and [2] UNJUST" (Acts. 24:15).

        "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, [1] some to everlasting [eonian] life, and [2] some to shame and everlasting [eonian] contempt" (Dan. 12:2).

        "And shall come forth; they that have done good unto [1] the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto [2] the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29).

        Hope this helps your understanding.

        God be with you,

        Ray
--------------------------

If it's as  simple as that then it clears it up for me as ive wondered about that too.

[Abednego]

Thanks for the posts on this.  I know I didn't get myself across correctly.  I'm not asking if there are one or two resurrections.  I ran across something that Ray wrote that caused this question, but now I'm having trouble finding it.  When I find it I'll post it here so that I can better clarify what I am really trying to say.  Thanks.

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm not trying to argue, but what about "two resurrections" negates the separation of the sheep from the goats?  Whether they occur at the same time or not, the elect are raised with Spiritual bodies and the rest are not.

[Abednego]

Dave everyone is focused on the two resurrections. That's not the issue, my original post should have centered on the sheep and goats. The number of resurrections only becomes important once the other question is answered. As I said, once I find what I am looking for I hope to be able to rephrase the question. Somehow what I'm asking just didn't come across.

[Kat]

One thing I will mention is that a parable it represents a truth about Christ's return, which we have little detail knowledge of. But there is another parable much like the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares. You know that parable I'm sure here is how Christ explained it to His disciples.

Mat 13:29  But he said, "No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
v. 30  Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.""'

Mat 13:36  Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
v. 37  He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
v. 38  The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
v. 39  The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
v. 40  Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
v. 41  The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
v. 42  and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
v. 43  Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

We know that Christ will rule on earth when He returns, now you don't think that He will just fix up the government that is already here do you? No, I would think He will remove all of the earthly "goats" - "tares" from every position of authority over the whole face of the earth first off... I don't know how, but I do believe He will wipe the world clean of all it's government and authority. That will be His separating the goats and bundling the tares to be burned.

The world that we will undergo such major and profound changes that I guess it cannot be even comprehended. But He will remove all that is corrupt that for sure. Perhaps this must be done before the rest of the dead can be raised.

Luke 13:27  But He will say, "I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
v. 28  There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
v. 29  They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God.
v. 30  And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."

Then He will have His government/elect put in places of authority and He and they will rule the world in righteousness.

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[microlink]

So can we draw a conclusion that the called are the goats and the chosen are the sheep?
Peace.