The great money maker

[Lark]

So i was looking through these " Christian" music singers, and i saw that there is an award ceremony for christian's.  For one saying you are helping the public by spreading the word of Jesus through music you charge people for..... that really bugs me, last time i read my bible i don't remember Jesus selling tickets to his huge sermons. How are you selling love?  Second of all when you hold an award ceremony you are celebrating your glory and your own talent NOT God.

Mathew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

God is the greatest treasure of all!

Also having an award ceremony reminds me of

mathew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

So basically i think they are all full of themselves not just the singers but anyone who tries to make a profit off of God.

Silly people and their love of fame and money

[friendofJC]

Amen sister!  God has revealed the truth to you. - Mt. 11:25

Have you read Ray's paper on "You fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!  Meet the real Jesus many hate?"  Don't know how to post links as I am relatively new to the forum but its at the top of the Bible-Truths website.

Matthew 21:12  Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who sold doves.

Christianity is a big business.  True followers of Christ are scattered abroad all over the earth.  God is with you. 

[Rhys 🕊]

As Ray often said it's not just about the money it's all about the money.

I've been reading that paper - "You fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!  Meet the real Jesus many hate?" 

http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

You just copy the link and paste friendofJC

That's the real Jesus and they don't seem to know Him

They are blind to the truth and this is what you do to them -

Mat 15:13  He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.
Mat 15:14  Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."

They are yet to discover what the temple is and for now serve money

Mat 23:17  You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred?

Blinded by all that glittering gold me thinks but all that glitters is not gold

I hate all award ceremonies but those who profess to be of the faith having them goes past hate and I need to think of a new word for it - might not be appropriate for the forum 

Rhys

[octoberose]

Well, actually, the New Testament does say something about a worker in the gospel making a wage. Paul repeatedly tells his flock that although he Could ask for support, he did not.
I Corinthians I think says -

9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10 Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?

Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

[rick]

 
Everything go's back to no free will and being predestine, we cannot alter one thing in our life. It seems to me we are all puppets and we have no control over anything in our lives. We cannot make one uncaused choice.

What ever God has predestine in anyone's life there is no escaping it, our thoughts are controlled thoughts and every situation in ones life is inevitable. God rules fully and completely.

If God wants Satan to posses anyone then Satan will posses that one, if God wants anyone to commit suicide then that one will commit suicide if God wants anyone to do right then that one will do right or wrong which ever way He wants that one to go, I /we have no choice. 

Those people who Christ scolded that sold things in the temple were ordained to sell things there just as Peter was ordained to deny Christ. 

I used to get angry with these politicians always saying ,why are they doing this or doing that, but now I ask myself if I were a politician would I be any better..... sorry , would God let me be any better, everything depends on God. 

I can judge what I see with the understanding I have but I won't pass judgement on anyone.
Judge not and you won't be judge but with the judgement you use shall you also be judge with. 

If I'm God's elect, that does not make me better than anyone who is not God's elect as its not by any merit in me that qualified me to be God's elect no more than the lack of any merit that disqualified any who are lost. 

Peace and love to all. 

[acomplishedartis]

It seems to me we are all puppets and we have no control over anything in our lives. We cannot make one uncaused choice.

What about rather that puppets, we say that we are like very sophisticated androids with the best on future artificial intelligence; processing data, comparing data, learning from experience, testing pleasure and pain...?

So i was looking through these " Christian" music singers, and i saw that there is an award ceremony for christian's.  For one saying you are helping the public by spreading the word of Jesus through music you charge people for..... that really bugs me, last time i read my bible i don't remember Jesus selling tickets to his huge sermons. How are you selling love?  Second of all when you hold an award ceremony you are celebrating your glory and your own talent NOT God.

Well said...

honestly, church music kind of bothers me sometimes. Comercial christian music is the best advertising tool for churches. Music by it self is all about manipulating emotions, imagine saying that your music is actually DIVINELY INSPIRED, How can anyone rid himself of such 'packages full of heavy emotions' when concentrated full on those coldplay style worship songs?, really, it's cheaper than drugs. It's the best most powerful propaganda in history. You can argue against a sermon, but who can argue against such beautiful songs?

On the other side, I don't judge brothers who still like listening christian music since they can put their own meanings and context to the music and therefore it doesn't bother them. A few time ago a friend I have put some christian music (with good taste and in a language that I don't understand) on my computer and I don't mind listening to it. In my case spanish comercial christian music bothers me the most, because I think that they take the name of Jesus in vain.

I also have a good friend who knows about this truths that sometimes compose tranquil good quality music (non for any profit) inspired on his spiritual journey.

[Max]

Completely agree. Reminds me of the story of Jesus turning tables and chasing the traders out of the temple. I do enjoy helping people and doing nice things, but I have to remember that verse when I do it because the temptation is always there to make it so everyone sees my good work and praises me for it. Gotta remember that the rewards are much greater in the ages to come.

[rick]

  Those sophisticated androids phones can only do what it's programed to do Moises , that was my point, look, we are puppets, I don't feel like a puppet but if one wants to think God is not pulling every string its their prerogative that God gave them, LOL

People are going to do what people do, why criticize anyone as we know all is of God but not always by God but God intended that what happens to happen.

Everything that happens under the sun, be it good or evil, is for our learning, if everyone did only good and did the right thing all the time, then where does being made in the image of God come into play without and experience of evil ?

Religion from what I see and what Ray said is all about ( MONEY ) please do send in your love offering is all you hear from them but its ordained to be that way.

Why did I learn that hell is a hoax at B.T. yet all the years I spent in Christendom I believed in hell ? It was ordained to be like, I thought I was doing the right thing going to church right, but then I find out God says come out of her my people.

Its amazing how much I learned here in such a short time compared to all the years I spent from child hood up, you know, going to Sunday school....I think they called that C.C.D.  LOL then all the time I spent going to church only to find out I should of stayed in bed Sunday mornings.

Yet it was all in the plan of God for me to experience all these things as it is for everyone else too.

So my main point is simply wickedness and evil is also in Gods plan in making us in His image.
So why should we complain ? How can I learn to forgive, if no one ever offends me ?
In short we need wrong doers in this life if you think about it. 

Peace and love to all. 

[acomplishedartis]

Hi Rick,

I was not contradicting you, I was only trying to give  better choice of words, I actually agree on what you are saying. Also I would congratulate you for your conclusions and how you share them, I am sure it also helps you as much as it can be able to hopefully help others reading.

I got this idea from an old post on the same subject:

Not puppets.... Clay. Clay in the Potter's Hands. 

I forgot all about that word. I'm not sure why. Totally slipped my mind. I suppose that's a better term since it's based off of Scripture. Same concept and that doesn't take away from the fact that it's God that wills in us.

When I said androids I was referring to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Robot

However, I think I still like better the comparison with Clay since we are being molded into something beautiful and very meaningful.

[Craig]

Rick I don't like seeing the word "Puppet" as it pertains to the sovereignty of God and our place in it. When you are done playing with a puppet you put them down and they are lifeless and thoughtless, we are not.

Ray did not like that term either.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2771.msg20557.html#msg20557

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4167.msg31848.html#msg31848

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7895.msg63024.html#msg63024


When I started seeing the truth of free will I used that term often myself, but we are way more than "puppets" we make choices, our choices never go against our will, God does not ever make us sin we do it voluntarily, it is in our nature.  But when we learn, we are being molded in the image of God. He does this by making us students in the most detailed and planned curriculum in the universe.

We are not "puppets" we are children of the Most High, and being taught in such a way as we cannot drop out and we all will graduate top of the class, though we will graduate at different times.  When we graduate and become all in all with God, we will be on our own; operating in the complete, righteous will of God, our will will be 100% that of Gods.

Craig

[John from Kentucky]

Ditto Craig.

[rick]

                                                   Hi Craig,

I should clarified my use of the word puppet, I'm liking myself as a puppet as one can liken life as a blade of grass, we know life is not a blade of grass nor are we human being puppets but liken unto puppets.


I don't use the term puppet in a derogatory way but rather to help one to understand how I perceived at this point in time my understanding of the absolute absents of free will in anyone's life.

My understanding of Ray's papers leads me to believe, all are fully controlled by God. What ever outcome God intends will be. I personally feel very secure in not having free will, as the lack of it will keep me from getting in the way of God's plan for my life, to me , it's fool proof.

I do understand fully that all is of God but not always by God such as the sin issue which I believe God temps no one to sin nor does God sin but God created Satan for the purpose of bringing temptation in ones life.

Being created in vanity being made to spiritually weak to obey the laws of God. So when I sin it's a result of my own depravity.

Having said these things I should like to add that even though I personally see nothing wrong with the term puppet to express my understanding of the lack of free will in my life I will refrain from using the term puppet, not because I feel I'm wrong but rather to keep from offending a brother or sister in the faith of our Lord.

Thank you for the links, my apologies also to you Craig. 

Peace and love to all.   

[octoberose]

Craig, thank you for the references from Ray's letters. I sure do miss his wisdom and his spirit.
We are clay and molded after the Potters will. I never grasped that until BT. I  love, love Romans 9 and I read  it often and sometimes out loud just so it sinks in. I love the imagery of our Creator molding us and who are we to question how  or why He does  it ?
Romans 9
19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?" 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
 

[rick]

                                                     Hi, Moise,

After reading your response I only further elaborated my own meaning, I took no offence in what you said or anyone else. I , just like anyone else here at B.T. am on a spiritual journey not of my own accord but of God's accord.

I see a misunderstanding over a word or the use of words that I chose to use to convey my understanding which has offended another, because I failed to considered how another might receive my meaning because of a particular word I used.

Its all apart of growing and understanding each other and moving forward in the things of God. Don't worry about offending me Moises , I'm a firm believer that without offences in our lives we cannot learn forgiveness, without evil in our life we cannot understand the painful and hurtful and devastating effects it has on another.

I hope I did not also offend you too Moises !


peace and love to all 

[Loverly]

Lark,

I think your thread about "Christian" music and $$$$$ got a lil bit off topic and opened some kinda can of worms somehow!  

xo

[acomplishedartis]

                                                     Hi, Moise,

After reading your response I only further elaborated my own meaning, I took no offence in what you said or anyone else. I , just like anyone else here at B.T. am on a spiritual journey not of my own accord but of God's accord.

I see a misunderstanding over a word or the use of words that I chose to use to convey my understanding which has offended another, because I failed to considered how another might receive my meaning because of a particular word I used.

Its all apart of growing and understanding each other and moving forward in the things of God. Don't worry about offending me Moises , I'm a firm believer that without offences in our lives we cannot learn forgiveness, without evil in our life we cannot understand the painful and hurtful and devastating effects it has on another.

I hope I did not also offend you too Moises !


peace and love to all 

you didn't offend me, neither I offended you... I just suggested a better word to convey the same meaning, that's all. Not big deal.