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Destruction of the flesh
microlink:
I have been re-reading Ray's Lake of Fire instalments on what is sin and Satan's role in particular. I have come across his reference to I Cor 5:5 pertaining to destruction of the flesh.
I have some questions/thoughts on this topic.
Here are the associated extracts from Ray's instalments in green:
God created the "WASTER," not the archangel who later supposedly became Satan, but from the BEGINNING God said He created "The WASTER" and He created him "TO DESTROY." Now then, WHOSE role is it to "destroy" the flesh of man so that the spirit may be saved?
"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one UNTO SATAN for DESTRUCTION of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (I Cor. 5:4-5).
It is SATAN who was created from his very beginning to be "the WASTER to DESTROY" men’s flesh (carnal mindedness) so that they learn not to blaspheme (I Tim. 1:20). Satan started with Adam and Eve and he isn’t finished YET!
"Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom [their flesh] I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme" (I Tim. 1:20.)
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh…" (I Cor. 5:5.)
That should be enough to make it abundantly clear as to where Satan’s domain is—in the flesh of man, on the earth.
SATAN—DESTROYER OF FLESH
Notice particularly the last two references. Paul used Satan to teach Hymenaeus and Alexander "not to blaspheme," and the man in the Corinthian congregation who was fornicating with his father’s wife, "for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
Paul used Satan for the "destruction of the flesh" of the fornicator in Corinth, just as God Himself used Satan for the "destruction of the flesh" in the book of Job.
I wonder about the meaning of destruction of the flesh. This phrase is used only once in scripture and that is in I Cor. 5:5. Ray does not elaborate on this scripture in the places I looked.
From Strong's G3639 - destruction is defined as ruin, death or punishment.
The word itself is used only 4 times in the New Testament:
1 Cor 5:5 1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Thes 5:3 1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
2 Thes 1:9 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1 Tim 6:9 1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
Paul told the congregation to put this man out to deliver him unto Satan for the destruction of his flesh.
So what does destruction of the flesh mean?
It surely does not mean for him to be killed physically by Satan.
Does it mean destruction of the carnality of the mind? Very likely (Rom. 8:7).
I John 2:16 tells us about the 2 human lusts and the pride of life:
Lust of the eyes - this must be about sinning in the mind and not a physical act. Like Jesus described in looking with lust in Mat. 5:28.
Lust of the flesh - this must be about sinning first in the mind (where sin begins - James 1:15) and then manifests itself in the act itself. Isn't this what I Cor 5:5 is about.
So does this mean that his sin should be viewed as him being mentally tormented to recognize the need for him to destroy his carnal desire and subsequent sinful act and to repent.
Then why would Paul go on to say that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. Is this day of the Lord referring to the first resurrection? We know that this guy did repent and get back into the fellowship of the Corinthian church (2 Cor. chpt 2). Therefore he would have experience his purging fire for committing this sin in the current eon and perhaps be in the first resurrection. Or is the day of the Lord, the second resurrection for this guy, the resurrection to judgment? I don't know. I do know we all have our fiery trials as God's Elect.
About the Job story. When the hedge was removed by God, Satan got to him. Satan afflicted him with heinous boils resulting in great pain. Through his trial, Job came to see his sin. He was self righteous to the nth degree. When he finally saw his sin he repented in dust and ashes. Would not this have been a sin of "pride of life"? He thought he was just as righteous as God, or even more righteous. He felt God was unfair. This may have been not so much a sin of the lust of the flesh and the resulting of the destruction of the flesh than it was the "pride of life". The pride of life has to do with self-will (free will?). Thinking of ones-self more highly than we ought.
It is fascinating to see how God uses Satan to ultimately bring about good. Satan is a tool in Gods hands, created for the ultimate good of all of mankind.
Kat:
--- Quote from: microlink on January 01, 2014, 03:38:52 PM ---Paul told the congregation to put this man out to deliver him unto Satan for the destruction of his flesh.
So what does destruction of the flesh mean?
It surely does not mean for him to be killed physically by Satan.
Does it mean destruction of the carnality of the mind? Very likely (Rom. 8:7).
--- End quote ---
1Co 5:5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Okay I think this verse as you say "does not mean for him to be killed physically by Satan," especially with the comment that follows, "that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." So I was looking in the translations to see how they have put this and the one that seemed to me to use the wording to best express Paul's intention here is the New Living Translation.
1Cor 5:1 Paul Condemns Spiritual Pride
I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you, something so evil that even the pagans don't do it. I am told that you have a man in your church who is living in sin with his father's wife.
v. 2 And you are so proud of yourselves! Why aren't you mourning in sorrow and shame? And why haven't you removed this man from your fellowship?
v. 3 Even though I am not there with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. Concerning the one who has done this, I have already passed judgment
v. 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You are to call a meeting of the church, and I will be there in spirit, and the power of the Lord Jesus will be with you as you meet.
v. 5 Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved when the Lord returns.
v. 6 How terrible that you should boast about your spirituality, and yet you let this sort of thing go on. Don't you realize that if even one person is allowed to go on sinning, soon all will be affected?
v. 7 Remove this wicked person from among you so that you can stay pure. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.
v. 8 So let us celebrate the festival, not by eating the old bread of wickedness and evil, but by eating the new bread of purity and truth.
v. 9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.
v. 10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that.
v. 11 What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Don't even eat with such people.
v. 12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways.
v. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you." (NLT)
So that makes sense to me and if it is the same man spoken of in 2Cor 2, then this passage is even better understood.
2Cor 2:5 I am not overstating it when I say that the man who caused all the trouble hurt your entire church more than he hurt me.
v. 6 He was punished enough when most of you were united in your judgment against him.
v. 7 Now it is time to forgive him and comfort him. Otherwise he may become so discouraged that he won't be able to recover.
v. 8 Now show him that you still love him.
v. 9 I wrote to you as I did to find out how far you would go in obeying me.
v. 10 When you forgive this man, I forgive him, too. And when I forgive him (for whatever is to be forgiven), I do so with Christ's authority for your benefit,
v. 11 so that Satan will not outsmart us. For we are very familiar with his evil schemes. (NLT)
Hope that helps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
microlink:
Thanks Kat,
So sometimes even a translation such as the NLT can bring out the meaning more clearly. We need not rely only on the "literal" versions.
The benefit of this event was not just for the sinner, but for the congregation as well.
I am still wondering about the "day of the Lord" timing for this guy.
Thanks again.
Kat:
Well in the KJ verse 5 says, "that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" and in that NLT it says, "he himself will be saved when the Lord returns."
I do believe that is what "day of the Lord" is in reference to here, His return and the resurrection of the dead. In that passage it seems to be saying to remove the sinning person out of the fellowship, so that he will be brought to repentance of his sin and then be returned to the fellowship of believers. Therefore he would have overcome the sin, endured to the end and been in the first resurrection. This is just what I think this could be saying.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ricky:
Would the day of the Lord be around or at he 7th trump, Rev. 11,15
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