> General Discussions
Suspicions about the very great evil in Churches
acomplishedartis:
No probrem Rick, I knew you were kind of new around here and that's why I didn't respond.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for further clarification. I would like to mention that I also have in mind that there is all kind of church leaders that have done wrong in different degrees, as I know that there is all kind of church members that have been manipulated on different degrees. Our minds, our time and the space for writing is often limited and so the best I could do around here is to share a couple points regarding christendom from a general point of view. Thanks God everyone judgement is and it's going to be personalized.
Honestly, I no longer buy the argument about; we pretty safe and comfortable behind our computers typing in the web like cowards, main while brave people die for their crazy heretic religious beliefs out there as we should.
First of all, if we find ourselves physically safe and clean behind our computers it's because this is the playground that God chose for us to overcome our carnality. What matters the most is what we think about all day long and our true wished toward others. Truth is that now days where many of us live, violence is out of fashion, however, we still have to endure other kinds of persecution, like psychological coercion, social pressure, political, commercial and religious propaganda, etc.
I think that two persons on this thread felt uncomfortable by my first post, maybe because they probably have people closer to them which are Christians, as I do. And neither do I like to see them as people who are being manipulated, deceived and used so badly by their religious leaders. In my case, I often suffer badly for them, while I can't do much about it.
And Paul seems that he was on the same position:
''I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh'' (Rom 9:1-3)
We must learn to separate what we know to be truth about the Church from our merciful feelings toward those that have been deceived by the Church. No body said that this was going to be an easy and not tricky road.
My dad died when I was a kid, and he was a pastor, and of course he was a descent person according to his surroundings, however, now I can separate my personal feelings from what is truth.
And the truth is that God is going to deal with him in total righteousness and eventually he is going to be purified as the rest of humanity.
I believe this is going to be my last post on this thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
Moises
lareli:
--- Quote from: Moises G. on January 29, 2014, 07:41:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on January 29, 2014, 03:05:29 PM ---1 Cor 13 says you can know all the mysteries of God, which would include the truth about salvation, but if you don't have love... You are nothing.
"Come out of her" does this mean to literally and physically avoid a physical building with the word "church" on the front of it? Isn't Revelations a book of symbols and metaphors?
Isn't it possible for some to heed the call of "come out of her" physically but spiritually remain in the same religious condition?
And likewise, isn't it possible for some to spiritually "come out of her" and yet physically be in the same vicinity as a physical church building?
Like Se7en said, isn't the seat of satan in our hearts and not a physical seat in a physical building?
--- End quote ---
I am sorry but I can't merely see what's your point. Of course we are to come out of her spiritually. Actually in all this thread I haven't even mention that we should come out of the building, what I was saying is how the church institution works.
Once we have come out of her spiritually, personally, I don't see the convenience or benefit of keep going to the building, years ago it was okay for me to go, but I no longer need it, it would be like going to the kinder garden once again. I remember I came out of her first and then when I was ready; I stoped going to the building since I had better things to do. Maybe some day you will be ready.
--- End quote ---
If there is confusion its probably because my post that you quoted above was in response to JFK saying Run as fast as you can from the Christian churches. Separate yourselves from them. Don't look back. as well as Kat saying But it is also God's will that we be prudent to recognize those that are deceived and blinded to the truth and to avoid them. and also to all the other anti-people who go to church posts..
Im just trying to gain a better understanding of why there is such a fear of "church people"... Theyre not the boogie man and theyre not ghouls or monsters... theyre just lost sheep as we all once were. And for someone to be rescued from the cesspool of church only to thumb your nose at the others who are still drowning in the cesspool seems hypocritical to me. Why not, instead... Go fishing in the cesspool? Isn't that where Jesus went fishing? Isn't that where the apostles likewise went fishing?
Kat:
Hi largeli,
Well maybe I didn't express that as well as I could have. We do not need to avoid Christians, I have family members that are active in their church and are very dear to me, I would never avoid them or any Christian for that matter. What I meant is avoid involvement with their religion, I have no desire to join them in their cesspool.
--- Quote ---Im just trying to gain a better understanding of why there is such a fear of "church people"... Theyre not the boogie man and theyre not ghouls or monsters... theyre just lost sheep as we all once were. And for someone to be rescued from the cesspool of church only to thumb your nose at the others who are still drowning in the cesspool seems hypocritical to me. Why not, instead... Go fishing in the cesspool? Isn't that where Jesus went fishing? Isn't that where the apostles likewise went fishing?
--- End quote ---
If I thought for one minute 'I' could open their eyes to this truth of course I would talk about it to them all the time, but I know it's God that must draw them to Christ.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
I have mentioned a bit of this truth to family members and they know I would gladly answer any questions they had, they are not interested and I'm not going to force it on them.
How long do you think any of us would last trying to proselyte among a church's congregation?
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Those are Christ's words to warn us against foolishly witnessing. It's not like God is in a race to try to save as many as He can in this life, the elect are chosen even before they are born, they are destined to be of the elect and nothing can prevent or change that.
Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
The thing is for most of their lives an elect has no idea they are His chosen, they go into the church along with the rest of the called. Even when they have their eyes finally opened to learn these truths, God does not make it obvious they are His elect even then. I believe it is to keep you humble, it would be too hard for a carnal person to not be haughty about it.
Now the Apostles were sent out to find/make disciples, but consider they were taught directly by Christ and they were starting the church. It's not like we need to make people aware that Christ has risen and people need to repent. The Apostles has a special mission given to them, it does not mean we all are to do the very same thing.
Christ tells us it is, the few, that are to strive to enter the narrow/strait gate, not to try to drag as many through with us as we can.
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
All of my closest family and most of my friends and co-workers have an active relationship with their church. I neither hate nor fear them. I do hate much of what they believe, and find it useless at best, and horribly evil at worst. But I've never convinced anybody of any deep spiritual truth. The closest I may have come is with those who are already 'underway'. I don't 'concentrate' on them, but on myself. I have problems they can't solve, and answers they can't hear. I reckon when more of my problems are solved, they may be more willing to listen...but that is no guarantee they can believe. All is of God.
I do 'feel sorry' for many in the pews...even many pastors...but not all. For the most part (of those I actually know and love) they seem quite happy the way things are, so I don't 'feel sorry' for them in the conventional sense. I 'feel sorry' for them because they have yet to see the beast rising out of the sea, and having their house built on sand fall, but I know it has to happen, and that soon thereafter, there will be joy--so I can't in faith 'feel too sorry' for them.
arion:
@Kat...
Very well put indeed!
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version