bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Scripture clarification  (Read 1489 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rick

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 920
Scripture clarification
« on: February 02, 2014, 01:35:20 PM »

Just wondering the true meaning of this scripture below , I was dwelling on it, thinking to myself, the devil is against me not to mention Christendom because my belief is contrary to theirs.

Can anyone clarify the true meaning of this scripture
.
Rom 8:31  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?



peace and love to all.  :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 02:21:06 PM by Rick »
Logged
To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Rick

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 920
Re: Scripture clarification
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2014, 08:53:10 PM »

I think I understand this scripture now by substituting ( succeed ) for ( be ) and then it makes sense to me. 


Rom 8:31  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
                                                                                                                           
Rom 8:31  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can succeed against us?

I would of like to have e-mailed Ray concerning this.

Peace and love to all.  :)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 08:55:17 PM by Rick »
Logged
To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4093
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Scripture clarification
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2014, 09:33:30 PM »

Why the substitution, Rick?

What "things" are we to "say to"..."if God be for us, who can be against us?"

Maybe it's THESE things:

 Rom 8:25 Now, if we are expecting what we are not observing, we are awaiting it with endurance."
Rom 8:26 Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with what must be, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings."
Rom 8:27 Now He Who is searching the hearts is aware what is the disposition of the spirit, for in accord with God is it pleading for the saints."
Rom 8:28 Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose"
Rom 8:29 that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren."
Rom 8:30 Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also."


and maybe it's THESE things:

Rom 8:32 Surely, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He not, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us all?
Rom 8:33 Who will be indicting God's chosen ones? God, the Justifier?
Rom 8:34 Who is the Condemner? Christ Jesus, the One dying, yet rather being roused, Who is also at God's right hand, Who is pleading also for our sakes?
Rom 8:35 What shall be separating us from the love of God in Christ Jesus? Affliction, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Rom 8:36 According as it is written that "On Thy account we are being put to death the whole day, We are reckoned as sheep for slaughter."
Rom 8:37 Nay! in all these we are more than conquering through Him Who loves us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor messengers, nor sovereignties, nor the present, nor what is impending, nor powers,
Rom 8:39  nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord."


Was anybody 'against' the Lord Jesus?  They CRUCIFIED Him!  Was God not "for Him?" 

So was Paul wrong?  "Surely, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He not, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us all?"  There's your example of how things or people can appear to faithless flesh and understanding to be "against" us when GOD is FOR US.  If God is "for us", can anything or anybody 'really' be against us?

What are we to do when we face opposition?  Count it all joy?  How can we do that?  By believing/faith. 

Don't make me post the entirety of Scripture.   :D  It all works together.  And HE is working ALL TOGETHER for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose.  Even His ENEMIES are HIS.  Nothing and nobody can thwart His purpose.  God IS FOR US...NOTHING can be against us.

         
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 09:46:41 PM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rick

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 920
Re: Scripture clarification
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2014, 10:54:04 PM »

Hi Dave, when I had read Rom 8:31, I was mediating on it, and thought about the wording against us, well I feel the devil is against me for starters. I could go on and on with who could be against me.

I wondered if this is the correct translation but Iím not a bible scholar or a theologian, but something just seems out of place with the wording.

Iím wondering if the translation is off. Before I read Rayís writings, I took every scripture at its word but since I came across Rays writing I question what Iím reading in the bible because there are some who have added to it and also taken away from it. Ray had proved that to me through his writing.

I thought about Exodus , now the Egyptian army was after the Jews, now the Egyptians were against them. (  Rom 8:31  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? ) But I see the Egyptians were not successful.

My thinking is this If Godís intention is for someone to do a certain thing, the whole world can be against that one but they shall not succeed against that one.

Ray question certain words in the scripture and because he did I benefitted with accurate knowledge. I laugh today thinking I was so stupid believing God would make people burn forever.

I like how Ray asked is there a forever after a forever, Look at this verse below,

 Rev 20:10  and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Thatís what Iím talking about... forever and ever.........Ok ..someone added to this scripure. LOL
 

 Peace and love to all
Logged
To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4093
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Scripture clarification
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2014, 06:14:53 PM »

The greek word translated "against" is:

 G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah'
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

As a 'particle' it is a very common word that can have more than one 'meaning' depending on how it is used in a sentence.  I checked all my available translations in e-sword, and all of them translate it here as "against", which it seems to me is a durable translation considering how it is used in contrast to "God is for us."

Read again http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html titled The Lucifer Hoax and the Mission of Satan.  Whatever Satan has been up to in your life, he was 'up to' by the will of God who controls him.  He is NOT the equal or near equal of God pitched in battle for the souls of men, as Christian doctrine says.  He is a TOOL in the Hand which formed him.  God is not out to win a battle with Satan, but to USE him for His own purpose.  He isn't used, as far as I'm concerned, so much in the lives of sinners as he is used in the lives of those God is calling out.  When his use has lost it's reason for being, he himself will be 'cast into the lake of fire', along with his messengers.

The whole 8th chapter of Romans is for the faithful finding themselves in a world and in situations which appear to be against them.  But ALL is of God...even those things that don't seem to be...and EVERYTHING is necessary for the perfecting of the saints.  I really believe this is one of those passages that can't be understood until it is believed.  After it is believed, it will be lived.
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4093
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Scripture clarification
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 06:21:37 PM »

Some info on 'particles' in English.

http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/particleterm.htm

Books have been written on 'particles' in the Greek New Testament.
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rick

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 920
Re: Scripture clarification
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 08:16:39 PM »

Hi Dave, thank you for taking the time to help me with my understanding. I guess when one understands other thing that you had mentioned such as there is no contest between God and Satan or for that matter there is no contest between God and any of His creation.

In that respect I can understand the( who can be against us ) in another light now. All is of God for his purpose and I understand there is nothing in heaven or earth that could possibly impede or stop Godís intentions period.

No doubt I got hung up on ( against us ) for whatever reason and even that is of God too. I do believe I have rightly divided the word of God using succeed rather than be against us without changing the meaning of that verse but that is for my understanding.

The way you had explained it although I now understand the meaning of the (who can be against us) with clarity now.

And the answer to that verse is  ( no one )

Thanks again for taking the time Dave, I appreciate it much.

Peace and love to all.  :)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 08:18:53 PM by Rick »
Logged
To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.055 seconds with 27 queries.