> General Discussions
Book of ecclesiastes
Kat:
Hi Nelson,
--- Quote ---ecclesiastes 3:21-'who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth'?Does anyone have an idea what this verse is all about?
--- End quote ---
People are given a breath/spirit that begins a physical life when they are born into this world, animal are too.
Isa 42:5 Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died.
1Co 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
When a person/animal dies their fleshly body, that is but a physical composition of the elements of earth or "dust," it then decomposes and "will returns to the earth."
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Now for human being God promises the resurrection of the dead and their spirit will be given a new body, with the same spirit that God has preserved so that the same person/personality can live again. This is not so for animals, nowhere in scripture is spoken that they shall have resurrection, they remain apart of the earth.
Job 14:14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my service I would wait, till my renewal should come.
v. 15 You would call, and I would answer you; you would long for the work of your hands.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
v. 29 and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Here is a couple places Ray spoke on this.
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------
SPIRIT
When a man dies his spirit returns to God Who gave it (Lk. 23:46, Psa. 104:24-30). The "spirit" is never said to go to hades or sheol, and the "soul" is never said to go to Heaven at death. Men and beasts have the same spirit [ruach] and they go to the same place (Ecc. 3:18-21). There is no getting around this: when God takes away a living soul's spirit, it always dies. The spirit "gives life." No one can live without "spirit," no matter how young and healthy he may be. There are no exceptions. If there are, where is the Scripture?
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html ---
there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.). There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
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--- Quote ---Another verse is ecclesiastes 7:29-'This only have i found:God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes'(NIV).Is this verse correctly traslated?Did God really make us upright(he made us spiritually weak)?
--- End quote ---
Ecc 7:29 I discovered that God created people to be upright, but they have each turned to follow their own downward path." (NLT)
I found a verse that could explain what this is speaking of.
Ecc 12:1 Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near of which you will say, "I have no pleasure in them";
When a person is born they have no sin, I guess you could say a person is born with a clean slate, "upright." But they don't stay that way very long, they soon go the way that all humans do, partaking of the lusts of the flesh.
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Nelson:
Howzit.
rickylittleton i like ur 2 cents.You say "We have all some time in our lives have ran into people who think that they were so holy, I don't think even the devil wanted to fool with then, because he has them where he wants them."I like it.
WOW KAT.Some good replies there!I always ask myself whether i'm the only person who reads and is fascinated by the book of ecclesiastes. Coz i hardly hear people talk about it.Statements like 'life is useless',what you make of those kind of statements?
Thanks dave, much appreciated.The enphasised Bible makes it much more clearer than the NIV.Do u think i shud buy it?I know there is no perfect translation, but it really seems like its better.
Thanks moises.I've never even heard of some of these bibles(Concordant,emphasised), don't even know where i'm gonna get them, coz they really seem better...and i mean much better than what i have(NIV).Your comments:'like when someone intends and think to be able to do too much, but then he doesn't have the means, the capacity or the guts to do what he started,"Jst made me look back!Thanxs
Thank you all. Guys i'm new at this site so please bare with me if i raise topics that have already been discussed(i've read all smith's material).Guys,there's an email sent to smith where a girl asked ray about his background because her friend is doubting what they taught her at her church.The reply made me laugh so so much.Larry was really wise hey.
PS:Anyone got Jokes to share or personal stories that might be funny?
Dave in Tenn:
Welcome, Nelson. I don't own a copy of the Emphasized Bible. I have it as one of several translations with e-sword.
www.e-sword.net
Kat:
--- Quote from: Nelson on February 06, 2014, 03:41:01 PM ---KAT.Some good replies there!I always ask myself whether i'm the only person who reads and is fascinated by the book of ecclesiastes. Coz i hardly hear people talk about it.Statements like 'life is useless',what you make of those kind of statements?
--- End quote ---
If somebody believes that this life is useless it is because they are ignorant to the plan of God, like the vast majority of people are. This age is for giving mankind an experience of good and evil, a backdrop we all need for contrast. God's purpose is to bring all of mankind to salvation, we are just not at the point in time when He has begun to save the world through judgement, that is for the next age.
Isa 26:9 With my soul I have desired You in the night,
Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
For when Your judgments are in the earth,
The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
acomplishedartis:
Keeping on talking on, Ec. 7:16-17
Here is one of my favorite email's replies (bolds are mine):
Dear Nicky: If I tell you that, "Yes, you are being greedy and you should not spend money or time with a girlfriend, but give all this time, energy, and money to the poor," you would not do it anyway, so why are you asking? I really doubt that you would never buy a pet for the rest of your life, because some guy on a web site told you 40 years earlier to spend that money on the poor. Don't become totally unbalanced. Jesus did not refuse to EAT because He could have given that portion of food to the poor. But neither did he live like a millionaire playboy, either. Many people have posed similar questions to me. They wonder if they should become homeless themselves so that they can feed a few more homeless people. But not one of them has ever done such a thing, so why ask? Well, people ask, so that I tell them that, "NO, it is fine for you to spend money on yourself and on your girlfriend, etc., etc.," so that they can go on their way and not feel guilty for DOING NOTHING for other people and the poor.
There is a proverb which says, "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?" (Ecc. 7:16).
I am not trying to demean your questions or your sincerity, Nicky, but we need to have a little balance in our lives. I once receive several emails from a husband and wife who were both doctors. They thanked for showing them on our site in an article on "Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant," that it is not a law of God that they need to give ten percent of their gross income to some church, or God will CURSE THEM WITH A CURSE. They had "tithed" in a very short period of time, something like $60,000 to a pentecostal church. They just thanked me, thanked me, thanked me, for showing them the light of Scripture that they were not obligated by God to "tithe" on money to a church, or be cursed. Had they not read my paper on tithing, by now, they might have given hundreds of thousands of dollars to that church unnecessarily. Now then, just how thankful were they really for what they learned from this ministry? They gave tens of thousands of dollars before learning these truths, but have not contributed one nickel to the ministry that taught them that truth, so that many more like them could also be taught that truth. I don't need their money; I don't want their money; I am merely making a point. Don't make a show of "being righteous over MUCH...," but then fail to do anything at all.
God be with you,
Ray
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