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Elect
Mike Gagne:
Could some one tell me when the elect becomes the elect? If we were chosen in him before the foundation of the world then would we be born the elect. I know LRays teaching in the LOF on who is the beast part13 ,and where he talks about 2 thess 2:3-4 . Is that when we become the elect or are we born the elect. Does Lray have any teaching on this?
Dave in Tenn:
Were Peter, James, John and the others disciples of Christ before they were disciples of Christ?
It's in 'the fullness of time' when things happen, even when they are predestined to happen. He knows. We don't know until the fullness of time.
Mike, Ray taught from the Revelation that it is in looking BACK that we hear the voice.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet...
Kat:
Hi Mike,
As with all things it's a process, yes the elect have been chosen from before the foundation of the world, which mean they are born to be an elect and whoever those Elect are, they can not be lost.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
But only God knows who are His and who will endure to the end, because at first the elect are among the rest of the deceived and are just as blind as they are. But for a few, one day God opens their blind eyes and draws them to Him so they can begin the next part of the process.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
v. 30 I and My Father are one."
Here is an email.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2059.0.html ------------
Those whom God has foreordained to be the elect will always be the elect. The chosen elect cannot be lost. But you and I do not know exactly who is and who isn't an elect. Only God's knows those who are His, and therefore, we can never let down our guard, because we might only think that we are elect. I have seen and witnessed this with my own eyes where those who appeared to be elect, turned and now blaspheme the name of the Saviour they claimed to worship a short while back.
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But of the few then we have the parable of the sower and the seed. Here is a excerpt form 'What Happened to the Church Jesus Built?' article no. 8.
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html -------------------
THE "CALLED" AND THE "NOT CALLED"
"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many [some, but not many] wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
But God has chosen the foolish things [many translations do not insert the word "things" in these verses] of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And the base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in His presence" (I Cor. 1:26-29).
So we see that God calls MOSTLY those who are: weak, base, despised, nothings! Are we to believe that God is going to build a SPIRITUAL ARMY of Sons and Daughters by which He will conquer and SAVE THE WORLD?
Hard to believe, isn’t it? I think we can all agree that there is a great deal of work to be done with and to these "nothings of the world" whom God is calling to such a formidable, once-in-an-eternity task!
But of the "many called," we are told, "few are chosen" (Matt. 20:16). Why is that? God has intended it to be such. We are given the parable of the "sower of seed" where much of the seed fell by the side of the tilled soil, and the birds ate it; some had no depth and withered in the sun; still more fell among thorns and were chocked, but some fell upon good soil and produced much fruit. Many seed are sown, but few seed produce good fruit. "Seed" we see everywhere in the Church; "fruit" of God’s spirit is more rare. These few have the added designation of:
"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).
These are the "very elect" who cannot be deceived any longer
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Mike Gagne:
Thank you Dave, yes I am starting to see that looking back I can see what has been happening! Thank you also Kat, I read so much teachings from the LOF that I forgot I read that twice already. It's been like I get in there reading LRays writings and I can't stop and then when I do stop I have a hard time remembering all that I read. I was on chapter 5 of the LOF series with this question in my head and here it was coming up in chapter 8 lol. I guess I need to slow down and digest all these truths! Thanks you so much! I am glad to know that you guys are here for help.
Mike Gagne:
Thanks Kat I get it now. :D blessing
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