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[onelovedread]

Hi JfK
Paragraph 3 of the study you cited from Ray, put everything in context. Basically the hatred applies to those who persist in sin- "when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness.."
No problem with either God or you.
I get your point.

[lareli]

Ugh... Set the alarm for 12:30am so I could see it, but I'm on the west coast and it was totally fogged over, couldn't see a star in the sky. Couldn't fall back to sleep till around 3am and I get up for work at 5.. Gonna be a red bull kind of day.

Luckily there's 3 more coming up.. Did anyone get to see it?

[lareli]

God hates sin and sinners. Ok there's enough scriptures on here to show that, but that's not something I'm disputing. I'm saying I, me personally do not hate sinners because that would make me (a sinner) a hypocrite. God can hate sinners and not be a hypocrite because He Himself is not a sinner.

Is there any scripture where we are commanded to hate sinners? I don't mean hate evil or hate sin but are we ever instructed to hate sinners? Because I know for sure we are commanded, not encouraged not advised, but commanded to love our neighbor as ourself. It's not an option or a suggestion. When Christ talks about those who profess to love Him yet don't do what He said to do isn't this what He's talking about? Love your neighbor as yourself.. He says that sums up the law and the prophets. 'Depart from me I never knew you' isn't this statement reserved for those hypocrites who don't love God and their neighbor as themselves?

Am I in the woods here?

His kingdom is not of this world.  Neither is mine.  Which is why I don't vote or engage in politics.  I will not join any military or bear arms or kill anyone.  I don't own any weapon.  I will not engage in false worship of God, but will worship Him in Spirit and Truth.  Get the point?

Is this the same John from Kentucky who suggested I move to Tonga with my 'high moral sensibilities' when I expressed my opposition to the US wars in the Middle East?

[John from Kentucky]

God hates sin and sinners. Ok there's enough scriptures on here to show that, but that's not something I'm disputing. I'm saying I, me personally do not hate sinners because that would make me (a sinner) a hypocrite. God can hate sinners and not be a hypocrite because He Himself is not a sinner.

Is there any scripture where we are commanded to hate sinners? I don't mean hate evil or hate sin but are we ever instructed to hate sinners? Because I know for sure we are commanded, not encouraged not advised, but commanded to love our neighbor as ourself. It's not an option or a suggestion. When Christ talks about those who profess to love Him yet don't do what He said to do isn't this what He's talking about? Love your neighbor as yourself.. He says that sums up the law and the prophets. 'Depart from me I never knew you' isn't this statement reserved for those hypocrites who don't love God and their neighbor as themselves?

Am I in the woods here?

His kingdom is not of this world.  Neither is mine.  Which is why I don't vote or engage in politics.  I will not join any military or bear arms or kill anyone.  I don't own any weapon.  I will not engage in false worship of God, but will worship Him in Spirit and Truth.  Get the point?

Is this the same John from Kentucky who suggested I move to Tonga with my 'high moral sensibilities' when I expressed my opposition to the US wars in the Middle East?

  Yep, that's me, the same lovable little fuzzball.

I didn't think your comments expressed thankfulness to God for letting you live in this country with all its blessings.  Of course, I don't want to offend anyone from Tonga.   

[John from Kentucky]

Hi JfK
Paragraph 3 of the study you cited from Ray, put everything in context. Basically the hatred applies to those who persist in sin- "when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness.."
No problem with either God or you.
I get your point.

Hi JohnChris,

I hope all is going well with you.

[rick]

Basically the hatred applies to those who persist in sin- "when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness.."

Now I’m confused, am I to understand God loves some sinners but hates other sinners because their sins are of a greater magnitude than other sinners?

But I thought If one has broken one law they have broken all the laws ? If one is willing to be a law breaker then they offend the entire law.

My understanding is we are sinning machines, we are not sinners because we sin but we sin because we are sinners, so then sinning is a way of life for everyone in the human race.

[Joel]

The beginning, the present, and the ending of all things are wrapped up in The Lord Jesus Christ.
Does God hate sin, and sinners? yes, that is abundantly clear from Genesis to Revelations.
The focal point is the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior.
 Jesus is our mediator, and the only reason we will ever obtain a good resurrection from the dead.
Paul said he was still pressing toward the mark of the high calling when he wrote the book of Philippians. (Chapter 3 )
Enduring to the end, and being an overcomer takes a lot of living while making both good, and bad choices.
Most everyone recorded in the scriptures faced these things the same as us. With God all things are possible!
Some people are on the potter's wheel, some are in the fires of the kiln, and some are vessels of honor, or dishonor.
Do we have more of the works of the flesh in our lives, or more of the fruits of the Spirit? (Galatians 5)
Looking unto Jesus.

Joel

[Kat]

Rick, yes we are all sinners, but for a few their sins are now covered by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. So yes God has begun His work of salvation in a few and they are considered clean because of they are now in/covered by Jesus Christ.

Rom 4:7  "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
v. 8  blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

1John 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
v. 8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
v. 9  If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
v. 10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Rom 6:22  But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Having the Holy Spirit indwelling makes you free and alive.

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 6:63  It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lareli]

Kat do you know of anywhere in the bible where it instructs us to hate sinners?

John I read the 2nd link you provided and just like the 1st link I agree with it. I see nothing that contradicts anything I've said on this thread (correct me if I'm wrong). Like I said earlier, there's plenty of scripture to show that God hates sinners and I haven't argued against that, but only God has the right to do that because He isn't a sinner. We are. So when God hates sinners He is not being a hypocrite but it's impossible for us sinners to hate other sinners without making hypocrites of ourselves.

You said that you want to be like God and so what He hates, you also want to hate and what He loves, you also want to love. But the problem I see here is that God looks at the heart while we can only see the outer man. So in our efforts to determine who God hates, we will inevitably fail and end up hating the wrong people because we don't see their heart. Ray also said in the 2nd link that God hates sinners in a way that we do not because God doesn't have a carnal mind, and we do.

Just so it's clear I'm not trying to teach I'm trying to learn and these are just my thoughts I'm throwing out there.

[Kat]

Well largeli, of course we should hate/abhor evil.

Rom 12:9  Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.

And like you were saying I would think it is a real difficulty to separate the sin from the sinner and maybe that is why Christ makes it clear that we should love all, even our enemy.

Mat 5:43  "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
v. 44  But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
v. 45  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

In verse 43 Christ says "you have heard that it was said... hate your enemy," that is not found in the OT, nor does Christ say it is, He's only saying it's been traditionally handed down to hate your enemy, but He refutes this idea. Paul teaches we should kill them with kindness.

Rom 12:17  Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
v. 18  If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
v. 19  Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
v. 20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
v. 21  Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

I guess we should leave the hating to God, He is just and will repay appropriately.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dave in Tenn]

Can't help but think about what God has done, is doing, and will do for those He 'hates'.  I know I'm not up to that standard, but maybe one day a little.

 

[Ian 155]

Saw it once but more orange but if going red you want to watch out for stars falling on you and fig fruit. Also the sky might suddenly vanish but that happens and the mountains and islands may disappear but that's normal on a lunar eclipse. Try and find yourself a cave to hide in might be the best as there is some dude called a lamb or something that may want to pay a visit. I think he is returning to check out the blood moon.

And if you see four horsemen then best cut back the drug taking 

Anyway I'm sure Pastor Hagee can be more helpful 


Rhys

Lol

[rick]

Thanks Kat, I understand God’s is only dealing with those who He called out and His love is extended only towards the called out.

God’s hatred for sinners is only for a season and the season ends, afterwards His love extends to all of His creation.

That is the good news of the bible to me, all are subjected in hope. Those who He hates should not worry or be dismayed for their day of judgement is coming and their end shall be turned into the glorious children of God.

I come to understand that all things are worked out but we must all live it out whether one is saved or not in this age, I believe all start out as vessels of dishonor and remain as such except those who God calls out to be a people unto Himself.

Those shall reign with Christ saving the rest of us who have not been called out in this age, but the good news again is the creature was subjected in hope.