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If you are the son of god..
AwesomeSavior:
Largelli:
As concerning Matthew 4:3, I have found 2 versions (The Message and The Common English) which translate the word "If" as "Since".
loretta:
--- Quote from: largeli on April 18, 2014, 03:07:30 PM ---If the church was going to be taken over by imposters and wolves in sheeps clothing soon after these instructions were written then what does it profit us now to have these instructions?
--- End quote ---
Tks Kat for clarifying that the biblical church instructions were only for those called into Christianity. I've often wondered how church discipline worked in the spiritual (episunagoge) church of God.
Dave in Tenn:
Religiously, Loretta. :D
Like, when we have a 'turning one over to satan' ceremony, we wear special robes. Some prefer blue with a green trim, but I like red and black because it's more somber...and I look better in those colors. There are differences over what incantation to use. One faction prefers the Eastminster Professional, whereas I pretty much lean towards the Ordinary Cataclysm. ;D
No...I just let them go. That's Spiritual.
indianabob:
Hi folks,
It may be helpful to realize that several years of operation of the church at Jerusalem passed by before the apostle Saul/Paul came on the scene.
During the interim the 12 apostles taught little or nothing about "Paul's Christianity". The Jews in Jerusalem and in their synagogues were teaching mainly that the "Messiah" had come and Jesus was he. We don't see much of anything from Peter, James etc about the "body of Christ" or Christ in us. The Jews knew that they were God's chosen people and destined to be a holy priesthood for God to the world.
So then what was it that the "believing Jews" of those first few years believed?
Weren't they still going to Temple and requiring circumcision and observances of the law? Requirements that Paul was teaching were no longer necessary for Gentiles under the New and Better covenant.
Kat:
--- Quote from: indianabob on April 20, 2014, 09:33:14 AM ---The Jews knew that they were God's chosen people and destined to be a holy priesthood for God to the world.
So then what was it that the "believing Jews" of those first few years believed?
Weren't they still going to Temple and requiring circumcision and observances of the law? Requirements that Paul was teaching were no longer necessary for Gentiles under the New and Better covenant.
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob, here is some historical information that may help in seeing how the first believers of the resurrected Christ were involved with the Jews. They eventually separated from the Jews, a slow process over the first few centuries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_of_early_Christianity_and_Judaism -------
Split of early Christianity and Judaism
Some scholars have argued to varying degrees that Christianity and Judaism did not separate as suddenly or as dramatically as sometimes thought and that the idea of two messiahs one suffering the second fulfilling the traditional messianic role was normative to ancient Judaism, in fact predating Jesus. Furthermore Jesus would have been viewed as fulfilling this role.
v
The first Christians (the disciples or students of Jesus) were essentially all ethnically Jewish or Jewish proselytes. In other words, Jesus was Jewish, preached to the Jewish people and called from them his first disciples. However, the Great Commission, issued after the Resurrection is specifically directed at "all nations." Jewish Christians, as faithful religious Jews, regarded "Christianity" as an affirmation of every aspect of contemporary Judaism, with the addition of one extra belief — that Jesus was the Messiah.
v
According to historian Shaye J.D. Cohen, early Christianity ceased to be a Jewish sect when it ceased to observe Jewish practices. Among the Jewish practices abandoned by Proto-orthodox Christianity, Circumcision was rejected as a requirement at the Council of Jerusalem, c. 50, though the decree of the council may parallel Jewish Noahide Law. The establishment of a Jewish Tax known as Fiscus Judaicus helped widen the gap between Christians and Jews for anyone that appeared to be Jewish was taxed after A.D. 70. Sabbath observance was modified, perhaps as early as Ignatius of Antioch (c.110). Quartodecimanism (observation of a Paschal feast on Nisan 14, the day of preparation for Passover, linked to Polycarp and thus to John the Apostle) was disputed by Pope Victor I (189-199) and formally rejected at the First Council of Nicaea in 325.
v
According to most scholars, the followers of Jesus composed principally apocalyptic Jewish sects during the late Second Temple period of the 1st century. Some Early Christian groups were strictly Jewish, such as the Ebionites and the early church leaders in Jerusalem, collectively called Jewish Christians. During this period, they were led by James the Just.
Paul of Tarsus, commonly known as Saint Paul, persecuted the early Jewish Christians, then converted and adopted the title of "Apostle to the Gentiles" and started proselytizing among the Gentiles. He persuaded the leaders of the Jerusalem Church to allow Gentile converts exemption from most Jewish commandments at the Council of Jerusalem.
v
According to the majority of historians, Jesus' teachings were intelligible and acceptable in terms of Second Temple Judaism; what set Christians apart from Jews was their faith in Christ as the resurrected messiah. The belief in a resurrected Messiah is said to be unacceptable to Jews who practice Rabbinic Judaism; Jewish authorities have long used this fact to explain the break between Judaism and Christianity.
v
After the destruction of the Second Temple in AD 70, sectarianism largely came to an end. Christianity survived, but broke with Judaism and became a separate religion; the Pharisees survived in the form of Rabbinic Judaism, today, known simply as "Judaism".
v
It has been argued that few Jews joined the Christian movement in the first century and that the movement probably never exceeding 1,000 Jewish members at any one time during the first century. Furthermore the size and importance of the Christian movement in general during the first century tends to be exaggerated by most scholars. By the end of the first century the total Christian population is estimated to have been only 7,530. These numbers help give a perspectives of what life in the early church would have been like.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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