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Author Topic: Isaiah 51: 22 ??  (Read 1191 times)

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lilitalienboi16

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Isaiah 51: 22 ??
« on: May 29, 2014, 04:58:18 PM »

The portion I Have bolded and underlined, can it be accurately rendered as "The Lord Jesus Christ and God the Father?"

Isaiah 51:22 "Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again: "

Here is the interlinear version of it; it translates "LORD" as Yahweh and "thy God" as Elohim (plural).

Read it here; http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/51-22.htm (NOTIECE: In my interlinear analyzer on the computer that I have downloaded, the word "and your God" comes up as Elohim and comes after the THE LORD part.)

Thus saith
'amar  (aw-mar') - to say (used with great latitude)

thy Lord
'adown  (aw-done') -from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine) -- lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with Adoni-.

the LORD
Yhovah  (yeh-ho-vaw') - (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God -- Jehovah, the Lord.

and thy God
'elohiym  (el-o-heem') -angels, exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.

SOURCE: http://biblehub.com/lexicon/isaiah/51-22.htm

Massoretic Text OT Hebrew Isaiah 51:22 Lexicon Strong's Concordance Cross  on Isaiah  51:22 Thus x3541 saith 559 z8804 thy nm אֲדֹנִים 113 Yhw יָהוֶה, 3068 and thy lhm אֱלֹהִים 430 [that] pleadeth y7378 z8799 the cause x7378 of his people, 5971 Behold, x2009 I have taken x3947 out y3947 z8804 of thine hand 3027 x4480 x853 the cup 3563 of trembling, 8653 [even] x853 the dregs 6907 of the cup 3563 of my fury; 2534 thou shalt no x3808 more 3254 z8686 drink x8354 it again: y8354 z8800 x5750

Source for Massoretic Text: http://www.qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/isaiah/51.html


The reason I ask this is because it seems SO STRANGE read this "thy Lord the LORD and thy God"

Any comments or clarification is always welcomed. I know ray had a deep study on the Elohim, thy Lord, the Lord, God , Jehova etc.. in one of his conference audio's, so that information is welcomed here if anyone can find this specific verse referenced by him.

God bless,
Alex

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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: Isaiah 51: 22 ??
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 11:04:19 AM »


Hi Alex,

Looking at this phrase and I'm thinking it is critical that a comma be put in the right place for it to read right. So here it is in the NKJV, makes a difference.

Isa 51:22  Thus says your Lord, The LORD and your God, Who pleads the cause of His people: "See, I have taken out of your hand The cup of trembling, The dregs of the cup of My fury; You shall no longer drink it.

Isa 51:22  ThusH3541 saithH559 thy LordH113 the LORD,H3068 and thy GodH430 that pleadeth the causeH7378 of his people,H5971...

The first part "thus says your Lord," is saying who is speaking, then the second part "The LORD and your God," is giving the title of who is speaking. The phrase the LORD your God is used many time, without the 'and' in there, which I don't think makes much difference. There are a few more places those words are used like that.

Isa 3:1  For behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, Takes away from Jerusalem... (NKJV)

Isa 1:24  Therefore the Lord says, The LORD of hosts, the Mighty One of Israel, "Ah, I will rid Myself of My adversaries, And take vengeance on My enemies. (NKJV)

I found another place where those same Hebrew words were used in that same order, but without the "and your" in Exodus.

Exo 34:23  "Three times in the year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel. (NKJV)

Exo 34:23  ThriceH7969 H6471 in the yearH8141 shall allH3605 your men childrenH2138 appearH7200 (H853) beforeH6440 the LordH113 GOD,H3068 the GodH430 of Israel.H3478

And here is another place you can see how these words can be used together.

Deu 10:17  For Jehovah your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, the mighty, and a terrible God, who does not respect persons nor take a bribe. (NKJV)

Deu 10:17  ForH3588 the LORDH3068 your GodH430 is GodH430 of gods,H430 and LordH113 of lords,H113 a greatH1419 God,H410 a mighty,H1368 and a terrible,H3372 whichH834 regardethH5375 notH3808 persons,H6440 norH3808 takethH3947 reward:H7810

Anyway hope that helped.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 11:11:28 AM by Kat »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Isaiah 51: 22 ??
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 05:24:01 PM »

Hi Kat,

Thanks for the response. You shared some great information and your point about the comma makes perfect sense! I sometimes forget that the original texts were written without punctuation and so its very much up to the translators to try and figure out how to carry over the meaning properly from the original text to us.

What conference was it were ray spoke in great detail about the old testament usage of Lord, God, Yahweh, Elohim etc... I'd like to go over that again.

Thanks again!
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: Isaiah 51: 22 ??
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 10:09:33 PM »


I think that might have been the 07 Nashville conference 'Who and What Is Jesus? & And Who Is His Father?' The main part of the discussion you are looking is about 3/4 way down in the audio 4, p.2 part.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Isaiah 51: 22 ??
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 12:54:13 AM »


I think that might have been the 07 Nashville conference 'Who and What Is Jesus? & And Who Is His Father?' The main part of the discussion you are looking is about 3/4 way down in the audio 4, p.2 part.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

Kat

Great, thank you! :)
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
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