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Mark10;18
Ricky:
Jesus said no one is good except God. Was He including Himself in this verse. How could He not include Himself, unless He is God. Any thoughts on this. Ricky
John from Kentucky:
Of course Jesus is God, but the guy He was talking to did not know that.
Proof Jesus is God:
...the Word was God. John 1:1
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,... John 1:14
Thomas called Jesus, My Lord and my God. John20:28 The last Scripture has a three fold witness. The Apostle Thomas said it, the Apostle John wrote it down as Scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus did not contradict Thomas or disagree with him.
indianabob:
John from Kentucky,
That explanation sounds right so far.
But, does that alone prove that Jesus, the man, was also the God of the O. T.??
Yes we presume that the God of the O. T. was the "word" or logos of God the Father and yet we are told that Father God or the word (logos) of God manifested itself in many forms in the O. T. to carry out Father God's work and to inspire men to carry out the work of the Father.
We think that we know that Jesus had to grow from a babe, to a teen, to a man in order to do the work of the Father. Did that babe, that boy or that man know everything that the "god" of the O. T. knew and experienced? Did Jesus the man hold that memory, that knowledge in his human mind while he lived as a human man?
There seems to be quite a bit of unanswered questions here and we are like the Bereans who seek witness for every doctrine. Isn't that as it should be??
Please explain further, thanks, Indiana Bob
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: indianabob on May 30, 2014, 04:29:02 PM ---John from Kentucky,
That explanation sounds right so far.
But, does that alone prove that Jesus, the man, was also the God of the O. T.??
Yes we presume that the God of the O. T. was the "word" or logos of God the Father and yet we are told that Father God or the word (logos) of God manifested itself in many forms in the O. T. to carry out Father God's work and to inspire men to carry out the work of the Father.
We think that we know that Jesus had to grow from a babe, to a teen, to a man in order to do the work of the Father. Did that babe, that boy or that man know everything that the "god" of the O. T. knew and experienced? Did Jesus the man hold that memory, that knowledge in his human mind while he lived as a human man?
There seems to be quite a bit of unanswered questions here and we are like the Bereans who seek witness for every doctrine. Isn't that as it should be??
Please explain further, thanks, Indiana Bob
--- End quote ---
Hi I-Bob,
I have some family visiting for the weekend so I don't have a lot of time since I'm on my way out of the office.
So this will be a quick response.
Jesus told us no one has seen the Father or heard His voice. Therefore, since the God of the Old Testament was seen and heard many times, then that God was not the Father. By process of elimination, He must be He Who we know as the Word or Jesus. Also, Paul stated that the Rock, Who followed the Israelites, was Christ.
Regarding your second inquiry, in the New Testament we are told that Jesus emptied Himself from God to be human. In so doing, all that made Him God did not carryover to His life as a human. It was the Father in Him Who did the works.
Take care Bob.
John
Kat:
--- Quote from: indianabob on May 30, 2014, 04:29:02 PM ---That explanation sounds right so far.
But, does that alone prove that Jesus, the man, was also the God of the O. T.??
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob, here are a few Scripture in Daniel that might help show exactly who the Son is. This first verse is where Daniel gives king Nebuchadnezzar the interpretation of his dream about the great statue that represented all the kingdoms of the world.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
Notice that the One who was to come was "the God of heaven." Now look at more Scripture in Daniel and this time Daniel has a dream and in it he sees the God of the heavens and he explains what he saw so we know who it is.
Dan 7:9 "I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire;
v. 10 A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened.
The is God of the OT now as you go down a few verses in the same passage you can see exactly who Daniel is speaking of here and I believe it is who he was referring to all along.
Dan 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
v. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.
This to me clearly show that the God of the OT is also a man and the One who literally became "the Son of Man." But there is another place in Daniel as well that speaks of "the Son of God," when He was with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego inside the burning fiery furnace.
Dan 3:25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."
There is another Scripture in Isaiah that people have a problem with, because it refers to the "Son" also as the Father. But actually doesn't this verify exactly who is being spoke of and clarifies that Jesus, the Son was God of the OT.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
This should also explain why He said "he who has seen Me has seen the Father," They are ONE, as in connected and not 2 separate beings.
John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
It was the Spirit of the Father in Jesus without measure (John 3:34) by which He could claim to be the Father, but He knew full well that the Father was more then Himself and therefore said, "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) and "I do not speak on My own authority."
And another important Scripture we have was from Jesus Himself who stated plainly He was from the OT and who else could He have been other than God?
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
We also know the God of the OT referred to Himself as "I AM." Coincidence? I don't think so.
Exo 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.' "
--- Quote ---We think that we know that Jesus had to grow from a babe, to a teen, to a man in order to do the work of the Father. Did that babe, that boy or that man know everything that the "god" of the O. T. knew and experienced? Did Jesus the man hold that memory, that knowledge in his human mind while he lived as a human man?
--- End quote ---
True He did empty Himself of some of His glory/dignity or elevation as spirit, so to become human and die, and that is why He prayed for that glory to be returned... not that He didn't think it would, it was most likely said for the disciples benefit.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
But it never says He was emptied of anything more than that glory. To me it is clear that He DID know and hold the memory of God... that was a critical part of who He was, why/how take that away? I mean how could He have known and done the things He did without that knowledge? He knew who He was, the great "I AM!"
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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