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The great false church

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lareli:
What is it about the great false church that makes it the false church.. Is it the hell doctrine and free will doctrine? The church that I grew up in was never big on the fire and brimstone preaching.. Actually I went to a bible study there once where the guy was teaching that hell wasn't real..

Also, why does God answer their prayers if they are praying to a false god?

Kat:

Hi largeli,

Here is something about how the church went into apostasy, Ray painted a pretty vivid picture of what happened and it's the same to this day.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html -----

Peter thought, well this is the last days.  Now he was right, he was inspired to write that because God did start pouring out His Spirit on Pentecost.  So that was the last days.  How long do the last days last?  Until they are over.  It’s been a pretty long time.  But he didn’t finish the prophecy, he quoted Joel, but he didn’t finish all of Joel.  Because it doesn’t all fit then.  But the portion that he did quote, it does fit then. 

You say, ‘but didn’t it mention heavenly signs.’  He said, you know these people aren’t drunk.  These people are like the people that prophesied in Joel,  where it says they shall dream dreams and see visions, all of that.  And the sun shall not give it’s light and the moon shall turn to blood. 

Acts 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.

Did that happen on Pentecost?  Yes it did!  How so?  How did the sun not give it’s light?  How did the moon instead of reflecting light, turn to blood? 

Light is symbolic of God’s Truth.  Jesus Christ is the light.  The brightest physical symbol of light, brightness, this is our sun.  So light comes from the strongest source.  God - Jesus Christ is that light. 

John the Baptist said, “that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,” (John 3:19).  But He was that light.  The Son gives light, that’s direct revelation from God.

Now the moon is the reflected light.  That should come through the church and through the ministry.  They get it from the Son.  The moon (church) reflects it’s light from the Son (Christ), it doesn’t have it’s own light (Truth).  If the sun went out, the moon would go out, because the moon has no light, it’s reflected light. 
So as the ministry gets light, they give it to the congregation, they feed the sheep. 

But what did He say would happen, starting on Pentecost?  The sun/Son isn’t going to give it’s light anymore.  God is not going to give direct light to the people anymore.  The light that should be coming, that was already given to the moon, to be reflected, now it’s not going to give it’s light.  It’s going to be turned to blood.  What is this talking about?

Their revelation from God was going to cease.  Apostasy is going to set in.  The church is going to go amuck and instead of teaching the light from God and passing it on, they are going to turn to blood.  How so?

Well on that very day they stoned Stephen (Acts 7).  Instead of giving light to the world as a secondary light, they turned to blood.  They turned murderers. 
Tomorrow we are going to go through and see how many men, who wanted to present God’s Word to everyday people like us, they had to pay with their lives.  Well who would do such a dastardly thing?  The moon!  The secondary light of God’s Truth - the church - the Popes - the Bishops.  If you even had…. you didn’t have to teach it or even read it, if you were found with a copy of Tyndale’s Bible, you were put to death.  I mean it was pretty bad.

Tyndale was burned at the stake.  Russ was burned at the stake, lots of people were burned at the stake.  They kind of took the Catholics out of England for a while.  Then bloody Mary came back and she wanted to bring back the Catholic church.  Then she started burning people at the stake.  She said, ‘I’m not doing anything to these people, that God isn’t going to do to them for all eternity.  I’m not doing anything wrong.’  She didn’t see anything wrong with burning people at the stake.  It’s unbelievable. 

Calvin didn’t see anything wrong with burning people at the stake either.  That man is so adored by so many.  I mean considered the greatest theologian.  He was, I mean absolutely the scum of the earth. 

Martin Luther although he did a lot of good things, you just read what his attitude was towards the peasants.  ‘Kill them all and make it dirty, make it fast.’  No mercy.

So it did start then.  They went from teaching God’s Truth, they turned their hands to blood.  They killed Stephen, a real saintly man, they killed him and gnawed on him with their teeth.  They just despised that man.  You don’t know what hatred is.  Like I’ve said so many times, hell hath no fury like a Christian who’s just been told the Truth.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

Extol:
There are a lot of things, but I think hell and free will are by far the two biggest, because those are the doctrines that a) deny God's love and b) deny God's sovereignty. Ray said at the 2006 conference "the biggest blasphemers of God Almighty: the Church!" No matter how well they know the Bible, no matter how kind and caring they are, no matter how many good works they perform...if, at the end of the day, they still think most people are going to hell forever, they despise the word of God and blaspheme His name.

Remember Christ's words to the Pharisees? Fools, hypocrites, snakes....Ray noted in "Repentance and Guilty of All":

Let me tell you something, the scribes and the Pharisees never taught a doctrine this damnable. You listen to Jesus Christ. He called them everything but… I won’t say it. They never taught a doctrine half, a tenth, not a billionth as evil as what the church is teaching today. I’m telling you, this teaching of hell is the ultimate blasphemy. There is no greater sin that any human being can think or do, than to believe that the God that they worship will actually torture their mothers and fathers and some of their sisters and brothers and relatives in real fire for all eternity. It’s the ultimate sin. They think they are doing God a favor by teaching this.

As to your second question, God answering their prayers does not in any way prove that what they are teaching is right. (I have no doubt that people of other traditions and beliefs have also experienced answers to prayer, healings, etc.)  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:22. They really did do these works, they aren't just making that up. I think that's part of Satan "appearing as an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14).

In that 2006 conference, Ray adds something important to keep in mind: "But we need the Church, don't be too hard on it. Let me tell you something: God doesn't call anyone to be one of His favorite chosen elect except from the Church. So we don't want to pooh-pooh the Church too bad, because that's where He gets His elect."

lareli:
Thanks Kat and Extol..

Ray said God doesn't choose the elect except from the church... So if my wife and kids want to go to church, but I have 'come out of her' what can I do? I mean personally I don't mind going. But I've read comments on here to the effect of 'run the other way as fast as you can!' When it comes to going to church..

But then I remember listening to an audio where Ray talked about how he would go to church sometimes.. I can't find it but I think I saw it on YouTube. Ray was talking about how his son died and the pastor was super insensitive about it and used the tradgedy to challenge Ray about his beliefs pertaining to Gods will.. I hope I'm remembering that correctly.

Kat:

Hi largely,

I think what you heard Ray say about going to church was before he understood these truths and exactly what the is.

If your family want to go to church and even you for that matter, then go. When it is time for you to come out the Holy Spirit indwelling will make it so uncomfortable to listen to their rhetoric you will have to come out.

We keep calling the organized church "THE church"... now the group that became the body of Christ, He called "MY church." Here is where this is explained in the article 'What Happened to the Church Jesus Built?.'
 
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html -------------

Jesus Christ said,

"I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of hell [hades/ unseen/ grave] shall not prevail [be prevailing] against it" (Matt. 16:18).

Prevail means to be of greater strength, to overcome, or to win out. So clearly from this statement, our Lord is telling us that His church will be under GREAT ATTACK AND ADVERSITY, however these evil forces will not prevail or be victorious in totally defeating His Church or bringing it to naught.

Let’s see just how the "gates of hell" have been attempting to annihilate the Church of God ever since its inception. And maybe even more important to my readers: Will everyone in the Church that Jesus built be in the first resurrection and rule and reign with Him in His kingdom? I will state right here, that the majority which make up the Seven Churches of Revelation will, most assuredly not, be in the first resurrection.

Let’s pick up at our parting Scripture from Part VII of this Series:

"And Saul [Paul] was consenting unto his [Stephen’s] death. And at that time there was a GREAT PERSECUTION AGAINST THE CHURCH which was at Jerusalem; and they were ALL SCATTERED ABROAD throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles… As for Saul, he made HAVOCK of the church, entering into every house, and hailing men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were SCATTERED ABROAD went every where preaching the word" (Acts 8:1,3-4).

"THE" CHURCH VS. "MY" CHURCH

During Jesus’ ministry, He spoke of "the" church and "My" church. There already existed "the church" (Matt. 18:17), at the very time that Jesus said He would build "MY CHURCH" (Matt. 16:18). For fifteen centuries God established Israel as a church:

"This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, ‘A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear.’ This is HE, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spoke to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers WOULD NOT OBEY, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt" (Acts 7:37-39).

We could, of course, trace the church back through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, back to Noah, and indeed, back to Adam.
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I thought of another place in an article specifically about who is in charge of the church after it's apostasy. Here is an excerpt from the article 'The Synagogue of Satan - There's One Near You.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html ------------

A TRUTH NO LONGER TOLD IN SUNDAY SCHOOL OR CHURCH

John tells us that Satan has a "synagogue." Synagogue means "a gathering together, an assembly, a congregation." This should not sound strange to our ears, seeing that we have already learned from Paul’s writings:
 
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed as into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the minister of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their work."

And so Satan has "false apostles," and "ministers of righteousness." Where then would we expect these false apostles and ministers of righteousness that belong to Satan, to reside? Why in "The synagogue of Satan," of course! And what do Satan’s ministers do that enables them to "deceive the whole world?" Paul again tells us:

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders."

And just where might we find such a "synagogue of Satan, with false apostles, and false ministers of righteousness, witnessing to the world with power, and signs and lying wonders?"

Certainly not in some macabre-looking, haunted-house structure with a giant marquee out front reading: "COME AND WORSHIP WITH SATAN AND HIS DEMONS"!

WHERE IS THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN?

The synagogue of Satan is located in the churches—in The Church!

"…you have tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and have found them liars"  (Rev. 2:2.)

Where did the Ephesians try those false, lying, apostles? In some pagan temple or church down the street, or across town, or in some foreign land? Or maybe in the pagan religion of the Roman occupation? No, in the Church. Jesus Christ says:

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write… thou have tried them which say they are apostles  [in the church of Ephesus], and are not" (Rev. 2:1a & 2b.)

Where did Jesus know these lying apostles? Why, in the Church, of course. Of what consequence would "lying apostles" of some pagan religion be to the churches of God in Asia?

And where did Jesus say the synagogue of Satan is located? Same place—in the Church:

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write… I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews  [in the Smyrna church], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan… And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write… I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [in the Philadelphia church], and are not but do lie…" (Rev. 2:8 & 9; 3:7 & 9.)

All seven of the churches were well aware of many pagan gods and pagan religions. These seven cities in Asia were filled with MANY PAGAN GODS.

The non-believing Ephesians worshipped Diana, who was associated with Artemis. Smyrna had temples to Apollo, Asclepia, Aphrodite, Cybele, Emperor Tiberius, and Zeus, and maybe most important of all, the Temple of Athena. Pergamum worshiped Zeus, Olympus, Athena, Dionysus, Asclepius ("The Saviour",) and also the God-Serpent and the God-Bull. Thyatira worshiped the Emperor, Thyatiran, Tyrimnos, and Pallas Athena. Sardis worshiped the goddess Artemis, and both goddesses Artemis and Cybele were commemorated on their local coinage. Philadelphia worshiped the sun god and serpent gods, although Dionysis was their major god. Laodicea worshiped Zeus Azeus and Men Karou.

Were these the false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan. Was it the priests of these pagan gods and religions of the seven cities in Asia that God was warning the churches about?

Since when are the priests of paganism called APOSTLES? Since when are the followers of pagan religions and pagan gods called LYING JEWS? Since when are the temples of Zeus and Athena and Diana called SYNAGOGUES? No, these false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan are in the churches of God.

And isn’t it ironic that in the two congregations that religious chart-makers tell us had NO spiritual flaws whatsoever, we find those residing who are specifically called lying Jews? No, Smyrna and Philadelphia, down through the centuries, have exactly the same spiritual flaws and heresies as did all of the other five churches of Asia.

THE THRONE OF SATAN THE DEVIL ALSO LOCATED

Now then, as the false apostles, and lying Jews, and synagogue of Satan are all located in the Church, where do you suppose we would find Satan’s throne, and Satan’s dwelling place to be located? Yes, that’s right: In the Church. Here is the Scriptural proof found in the messages to the church at Smyrna and Pergamos:

"Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison…"  (Rev. 2:10.)

"I know your works and where you dwell, even where  [the same place where] Satan’s seat [Greek: throne] is… were Satan [also] dwells" (Rev. 2:13.)

Satan cannot imprison members of the Church unless Satan is in the Church. His throne is in the Church. His dwelling place is in the Church. His synagogue is in the Church.

And think not that Satan merely makes an occasional visit to the Church. No, Satan is permanently in the Church until God removes him. The Greek word from which the translators give us "dwelleth" in the KJV is kataoideo, and its meaning is: "To house permanently" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary, page 136.) Satan not only has his false apostles in the Church, and his congregation of unconverted lying Jews in the Church, and his synagogue in the Church, and his very throne in the Church, but Satan himself dwells permanently in the Church.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

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