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Dave in Tenn:
In my vivid fantasy-life--if the sword were on my neck--I would pray for the guy, forgive him, because he can't do any different without the grace of God on him, love him in whatever ways were possible, preach good news to him, and rejoice that I had been counted worthy to suffer for His name's sake. 

Peter, however, walked and lived with Christ for 3 and 1/2 years, but denied Him at the end--even though that wasn't the end for Peter.  So I reckon if the time should come when a literal blade is on my neck, I'll do what the Lord said I would do.  Life is full of choices, and no situation is so narrow that there aren't other things to consider--the only people in the room may be me and him, but maybe not.  I've been told not to 'plan' on what to say if I'm dragged before the council.  It's best to 'plan' that what is in my heart overflows--because that's exactly what's going to happen anyway.

Nathan, your list will get you hated where I come from too.

lilitalienboi16:
I'm not really following this thread but I wanted to just chime in to what Dave said:

Exodus 4:12 "Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say."

I've always loved this next verse and have never forgotten it.

Matthew 10:19-20 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

Luke 21:14-15 "Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."

Luke 12:11-12 "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."

Love it! :)

Ian 155:

--- Quote from: largeli on October 17, 2014, 08:49:06 AM ---A Christian is someone who's god is Christ. A Christian is someone who is of Christ. A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ.



--- End quote ---

I dont see anything wrong with this - and there are two witnesses ...
I suppose the difference would be those who Do what Jesus said to do and those who don't yet call themselves the same.

Who do You say I am ?

lareli:

--- Quote from: Nathan on October 17, 2014, 06:01:06 PM ---
--- Quote ---Pagans coined the term to describe themselves? The pagans coined the term, not to describe themselves but to describe the disciples of Christ.. Per the two witnesses in Acts.

When a Muslim extremist goes through a town in Iraq asking people if they're Christians or not, he is asking whether or not Jesus Christ is the god you worship. That's all he cares about when he asks if you're a Christian. Whether you consider yourself a "called out, chosen, elect" follower of Christ who has nothing to do with worldly Christians or not doesn't matter. But again, you can answer "nope, not me" and avoid persecution. I'm not saying it's wrong Nathan just convenient. You have your reasoning and I don't agree but that doesn't make it wrong. I may be just a simple minded, blind and weak person who doesn't yet understand the deep truths that you do.. You and JFK have been at this for a lot longer then me I'm sure.
--- End quote ---

The term was used by pagans as an insult. If you want to use that term to describe yourself, that's fine, but the point I was trying to make was the origin of the term "Christian" was coined by pagans as an insult. That point aside, I do not wish to affiliate myself with Christendom in any way, which is another reason I do not refer to myself as Christian. Regardless, what one calls themselves is irrelevant - all that matters is whether or not ones heart is circumcised, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God (Rom 2:29).

I suffer persecution NOW from many CHRISTIANS, especially those of my own family - my father and brother are both pastors and despise my beliefs. All those who live godly in Christ Jesus suffer persecution (2 Tim 3:12) NOW, yet you keep talking about persecution in future terms, as if to say when the day comes when Christians are persecuted in this country (ie rounded up and slaughtered) you will call yourself a Christian and face persecution even unto death.

I die daily NOW, I am persecuted NOW, I am going through the fire NOW and if and when the day comes that I must die physically at the hand of a persecutor, so be it. All is of God. Your thought process on this topic clearly shows that you are yet carnal - you view persecution only in physical terms, which, by the way, may never come in your/my lifetime, however ALL who live godly in Christ Jesus face persecution - mediate on that.

I don't celebrate Christmas either - am I doing that as well to avoid persecution? I can tell you that I never really faced any type of persecution until I stopped referring to myself as a Christian, stopped believing all of the doctrines of Christendom, stop supporting "Christian politics", stopped supporting "Christian warmongering", stopped hating Muslim and truly came "out of her" (Rev 18:4).

--- End quote ---

Nathan. Not that I care brother, I really don't. It honestly doesn't bother me at all, BUT I just want to point out that when you read posts that someone writes on a discussion board, you are getting a very teeny tiny glimpse into someone's thought process... Some people on here are very good at articulating their thoughts and others like myself are not so good.. I am simple minded and also wont deny that I am yet carnal as we all are including yourself. Perhaps I am a lot more carnal than yourself. Perhaps not. I wont be the judge of that though. So when you say things like, "Your thought process clearly shows.." or when you state something about me as fact, such as "you view persecution only in physical terms," You are bearing false witness about me... which, like I said, doesn't bother me a bit even if I know what you are saying is not true. I don't fault you nor blame you and in fact I'm pretty sure we all assume things about one another when reading comments on here, but when you state your assumptions as facts then its bearing false witness.

As far as you stating that I only view persecution in future terms and in the form of physical dying, well it is true that that is the example I am giving on this thread but it doesn't mean that I only view martyrdom as the only form of persecution. However, you don't know where I live do you? For all you know I could be typing this from Iraq or Syria where physical persecution isn't a fantasy but a daily reality. For the record though I am not typing this from the middle east.

Nathan:

--- Quote ---Nathan. Not that I care brother, I really don't. It honestly doesn't bother me at all, BUT I just want to point out that when you read posts that someone writes on a discussion board, you are getting a very teeny tiny glimpse into someone's thought process... Some people on here are very good at articulating their thoughts and others like myself are not so good.. I am simple minded and also wont deny that I am yet carnal as we all are including yourself. Perhaps I am a lot more carnal than yourself. Perhaps not. I wont be the judge of that though. So when you say things like, "Your thought process clearly shows.." or when you state something about me as fact, such as "you view persecution only in physical terms," You are bearing false witness about me... which, like I said, doesn't bother me a bit even if I know what you are saying is not true. I don't fault you nor blame you and in fact I'm pretty sure we all assume things about one another when reading comments on here, but when you state your assumptions as facts then its bearing false witness.

As far as you stating that I only view persecution in future terms and in the form of physical dying, well it is true that that is the example I am giving on this thread but it doesn't mean that I only view martyrdom as the only form of persecution. However, you don't know where I live do you? For all you know I could be typing this from Iraq or Syria where physical persecution isn't a fantasy but a daily reality. For the record though I am not typing this from the middle east.
--- End quote ---

I realize that a forum/discussion board only gives a tiny glimpse into someone's thought process, but when you say that those who choose to not call themselves "Christians" are doing so to avoid physical persecution, that shows where your thought process is on this particular topic, otherwise you wouldn't have made that statement - that's not bearing false witness. Those that call themselves Christians are some of the biggest persecutors on the planet, but I would not go so far as to say that you are a persecutor because you call yourself a Christian.

So, when the day comes when men come knocking at my door asking me if I'm a Christian so they can take me to the executioner, I will say, by Christian do you mean, do I hate my enemies, do I believe that the vast majority of humanity will burn in a fiery hell for all eternity, do I believe that only a few who believe like me are saved after saying an 11 second prayer, do I believe that the physical state of Israel is the Israel of God, do I believe in a secret rapture where I get to avoid "the great tribulation", do I believe in a God who tells me to love my enemies while He hates His, do I believe in the Savior of the world who failed at His mission - is that what you mean by Christian? Then, NO, I'm not a Christian. --- at this point the men cry blasphemy, rend their garments and say "come with us"! "Who's us", I say - "we're Christians"!

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