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THE FIRST SIN
theophilus:
Hello BT family,
I have a question that has been nagging me for a while now. As you may know, the popular belief about the first sin was eating the forbidden fruit. But upon closer inspection, it appears that the first sin was seeing "that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and the tree was desirable for gaining wisdom." Genesis 3:6.
But what catches my attention is what Eve said to the serpent in Genesis 3.3: it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said, ‘You shall not eat it OR EVEN TOUCH IT, or else you will die.’
In Genesis 2:16-17 "The Lord God gave the man this order: You are free to eat from any of the trees of the garden 17 except the tree of knowledge of good and evil. From that tree you shall not eat; when you eat from it you shall die." In this verse, there is no mention of God saying not to touch the tree. However, Eve replied to the serpent that God said to NOT EVEN TOUCH IT [the tree].
Would this not be ADDING TO THE WORDS OF GOD? If so, would this not be the first sin?
Extol:
Greets Theo,
I was just listening to Ray talk about that this week:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9742.0.html
Dear Ray,
In Genesis 2:16 the Lord tells man the rules regarded the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In Genesis 3 it says it is the woman that the subtle serpent chooses to approach and question. In Genesis 3:3 the woman misquotes the Lord. This is the first time that the commandment, found in Deut. 2:4, Moses to Israel was not kept.
[Ray comment: That’s where it says you should not add unto My word.]
This is the first time this commandment was broken. At this point I suspect that the serpent, hearing this misquote, knew it could get her to touch the fruit and she would see that nothing happened to her. Then it would be easy to get her to eat it. She then gave to her husband who was with her and he also ate it, according to what’s here in Genesis. God never told Eve directly the rules, but probably left that to Adam, being he was her husband. Have a great day.
Dean
What is his point? I’ll just give you my comments.
In Genesis 2:16 the Lord tells man the rules regarded the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In Genesis 3 it says it is the woman that the subtle serpent chooses to approach and question. In Genesis 3:3 the woman misquotes the Lord.
[Comment: That is sheer speculation on your part. Many dozens of time in Scripture, we are told specifically what happens in any given occasion, in one account of the incident. But in another account with the same incident, we are told more information than was given in the first account. Especially this is true throughout the gospel accounts. That does not mean that the new added information contradicts what actually happens. Therefore you can not say with any authority whatsoever that Adam did not tell Eve, not only not to eat of the tree, but not even to touch it. So you can’t say that. On what authority?]
This is the first time this commandment of adding was broken.
[Comment: Well that is just speculation again on your part.]
At this point I suspect that the serpent, hearing this misquote, knew it could get her to touch the fruit and she would see that nothing happened to her. Then it would be easy to get her to eat it.
[Comment: Now it is you Dean who is adding to the word of God (and this is what he is accusing Eve of doing). Nowhere does the serpent suggest that Eve should just touch the tree first to see that nothing would happen. Therefore before she even ate of the tree she lusted for the fruit. She lusted with her eyes and she lusted for something to make her wise. Furthermore just how would the serpent know what God instructed Adam. Does God always have a snake following Him around? No. God didn’t give that instruction to the serpent, He gave that to Adam, after He created him.]
She then gave to her husband who was with her and he also ate it, according to what’s here in Genesis. God never told Eve directly the rules, but probably left that to Adam, being he was her husband.
[Comment: Well duh, and since this is undoubtedly how she did learn, then she did not misquote God. But rather honestly and truthfully stated exactly what God declared to her husband. So your argument contradicts itself and doesn’t even have a point. I don’t mean to embarrass you, but sometimes we need to think more deeply before we speak. It’s okay though, we all are a little incoherent at times.
God be with you,
Ray ]
But he took the time to write me an email, trying to show me that Eve misquoted God. Because he did, Satan took advantage. It’s not there, it’s sheer fabrication. Not only is it unscriptural, then it becomes anti-scriptural.
Also, since we know Adam and Eve weren't created perfectly, and we know they sinned before eating the fruit, isn't it possible they sinned long before this business with the serpent happened? We are not told much about their lives in the Garden of Eden. Maybe they were there for years before eating the fruit.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Extol on July 25, 2014, 10:53:53 AM ---Greets Theo,
I was just listening to Ray talk about that this week:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9742.0.html
Dear Ray,
In Genesis 2:16 the Lord tells man the rules regarded the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In Genesis 3 it says it is the woman that the subtle serpent chooses to approach and question. In Genesis 3:3 the woman misquotes the Lord. This is the first time that the commandment, found in Deut. 2:4, Moses to Israel was not kept.
[Ray comment: That’s where it says you should not add unto My word.]
This is the first time this commandment was broken. At this point I suspect that the serpent, hearing this misquote, knew it could get her to touch the fruit and she would see that nothing happened to her. Then it would be easy to get her to eat it. She then gave to her husband who was with her and he also ate it, according to what’s here in Genesis. God never told Eve directly the rules, but probably left that to Adam, being he was her husband. Have a great day.
Dean
What is his point? I’ll just give you my comments.
In Genesis 2:16 the Lord tells man the rules regarded the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In Genesis 3 it says it is the woman that the subtle serpent chooses to approach and question. In Genesis 3:3 the woman misquotes the Lord.
[Comment: That is sheer speculation on your part. Many dozens of time in Scripture, we are told specifically what happens in any given occasion, in one account of the incident. But in another account with the same incident, we are told more information than was given in the first account. Especially this is true throughout the gospel accounts. That does not mean that the new added information contradicts what actually happens. Therefore you can not say with any authority whatsoever that Adam did not tell Eve, not only not to eat of the tree, but not even to touch it. So you can’t say that. On what authority?]
This is the first time this commandment of adding was broken.
[Comment: Well that is just speculation again on your part.]
At this point I suspect that the serpent, hearing this misquote, knew it could get her to touch the fruit and she would see that nothing happened to her. Then it would be easy to get her to eat it.
[Comment: Now it is you Dean who is adding to the word of God (and this is what he is accusing Eve of doing). Nowhere does the serpent suggest that Eve should just touch the tree first to see that nothing would happen. Therefore before she even ate of the tree she lusted for the fruit. She lusted with her eyes and she lusted for something to make her wise. Furthermore just how would the serpent know what God instructed Adam. Does God always have a snake following Him around? No. God didn’t give that instruction to the serpent, He gave that to Adam, after He created him.]
She then gave to her husband who was with her and he also ate it, according to what’s here in Genesis. God never told Eve directly the rules, but probably left that to Adam, being he was her husband.
[Comment: Well duh, and since this is undoubtedly how she did learn, then she did not misquote God. But rather honestly and truthfully stated exactly what God declared to her husband. So your argument contradicts itself and doesn’t even have a point. I don’t mean to embarrass you, but sometimes we need to think more deeply before we speak. It’s okay though, we all are a little incoherent at times.
God be with you,
Ray ]
But he took the time to write me an email, trying to show me that Eve misquoted God. Because he did, Satan took advantage. It’s not there, it’s sheer fabrication. Not only is it unscriptural, then it becomes anti-scriptural.
Also, since we know Adam and Eve weren't created perfectly, and we know they sinned before eating the fruit, isn't it possible they sinned long before this business with the serpent happened? We are not told much about their lives in the Garden of Eden. Maybe they were there for years before eating the fruit.
--- End quote ---
Great post Jesse! Thank you.
rick:
--- Quote from: theophilus on July 25, 2014, 10:27:27 AM --- it appears that the first sin was seeing "that the tree was good for food
--- End quote ---
It’s my understanding that Adam and Eve were sinning all along from the heart but I believe the first outworking of sin was when Eve did eat, so the eating of the fruit would be considered the first sin. :)
Extol:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on July 25, 2014, 02:28:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Extol on July 25, 2014, 10:53:53 AM ---Greets Theo,
I was just listening to Ray talk about that this week:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9742.0.html
Dear Ray,
In Genesis 2:16 the Lord tells man the rules regarded the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In Genesis 3 it says it is the woman that the subtle serpent chooses to approach and question. In Genesis 3:3 the woman misquotes the Lord. This is the first time that the commandment, found in Deut. 2:4, Moses to Israel was not kept.
[Ray comment: That’s where it says you should not add unto My word.]
This is the first time this commandment was broken. At this point I suspect that the serpent, hearing this misquote, knew it could get her to touch the fruit and she would see that nothing happened to her. Then it would be easy to get her to eat it. She then gave to her husband who was with her and he also ate it, according to what’s here in Genesis. God never told Eve directly the rules, but probably left that to Adam, being he was her husband. Have a great day.
Dean
What is his point? I’ll just give you my comments.
In Genesis 2:16 the Lord tells man the rules regarded the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In Genesis 3 it says it is the woman that the subtle serpent chooses to approach and question. In Genesis 3:3 the woman misquotes the Lord.
[Comment: That is sheer speculation on your part. Many dozens of time in Scripture, we are told specifically what happens in any given occasion, in one account of the incident. But in another account with the same incident, we are told more information than was given in the first account. Especially this is true throughout the gospel accounts. That does not mean that the new added information contradicts what actually happens. Therefore you can not say with any authority whatsoever that Adam did not tell Eve, not only not to eat of the tree, but not even to touch it. So you can’t say that. On what authority?]
This is the first time this commandment of adding was broken.
[Comment: Well that is just speculation again on your part.]
At this point I suspect that the serpent, hearing this misquote, knew it could get her to touch the fruit and she would see that nothing happened to her. Then it would be easy to get her to eat it.
[Comment: Now it is you Dean who is adding to the word of God (and this is what he is accusing Eve of doing). Nowhere does the serpent suggest that Eve should just touch the tree first to see that nothing would happen. Therefore before she even ate of the tree she lusted for the fruit. She lusted with her eyes and she lusted for something to make her wise. Furthermore just how would the serpent know what God instructed Adam. Does God always have a snake following Him around? No. God didn’t give that instruction to the serpent, He gave that to Adam, after He created him.]
She then gave to her husband who was with her and he also ate it, according to what’s here in Genesis. God never told Eve directly the rules, but probably left that to Adam, being he was her husband.
[Comment: Well duh, and since this is undoubtedly how she did learn, then she did not misquote God. But rather honestly and truthfully stated exactly what God declared to her husband. So your argument contradicts itself and doesn’t even have a point. I don’t mean to embarrass you, but sometimes we need to think more deeply before we speak. It’s okay though, we all are a little incoherent at times.
God be with you,
Ray ]
But he took the time to write me an email, trying to show me that Eve misquoted God. Because he did, Satan took advantage. It’s not there, it’s sheer fabrication. Not only is it unscriptural, then it becomes anti-scriptural.
Also, since we know Adam and Eve weren't created perfectly, and we know they sinned before eating the fruit, isn't it possible they sinned long before this business with the serpent happened? We are not told much about their lives in the Garden of Eden. Maybe they were there for years before eating the fruit.
--- End quote ---
Great post Jesse! Thank you.
--- End quote ---
And thank God for imparting such wisdom to Ray. ;)
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