> General Discussions
General Questions
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: zander on September 26, 2014, 06:11:00 PM ---Thanks for the contribution Alex.
I thought we were judged as spiritual beings. I swear Ray once said something like: When I die, I will never see my body again and thank God for that"
Secondly, I thought the "caught up in the air with Christ" thing was a church teaching.
Thirdly, I understand the unexpectedness of Christ's arrival, however you missed the second part. To me, a thief in the night is unnoticed. He comes and he goes and I do not notice him. I am struggling to comprehend the "thief in the night" if that is the case.
--- End quote ---
Hello Zander,
Many of us are being judged now, Judgement has began at the house of God.
I don't recall where ray said that we are judged as "spiritual beings," and if he did i can only assume he felt confident in his running of the race faithfully and believing that he has finished it. Perhaps in that sense, he could say what you believe him to have said. Again though... we are being judged now and ray was being judged now. Ray was certainly not a spiritual being but human--flesh and blood like the rest of us. I think he was confident that he will be raised with a spiritual body though, as those who endure to the end will be.
Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
I really think in paul's writtings here there is a wealth of information. I think we can understand from it that those who are not judged now, who must endure the lake of fire, who have not "died" to self, cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven in that condition and will not be raised with glorified spiritual bodies. It sounds to me like they will have to endure judgement first, before they can be raised to incorruption and immortality.
Those who will be raised to inherit the kingdom, to reign with Christ and not be hurt by the second death, to judge the world, they are those who are now experiencing judgement;
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Only God knows who will endure to the end, through this judgement, to be raised and reign with Christ.
Does this clarify the resurrection question? I tried my best, again, I'm not the final authority by any means and I welcome the input of others.
Caught up in the air is not a church teaching, what is a church teaching is that we will be "Raptured" out of tribulations. That christians will not have to endure tribulations to enter the Kingdom of heaven. We know this is false because;
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
So there goes that bit of heresy.
I didn't miss the second part, I just believe that the comparison to a thief is not in the fact that He will come and go and you won't even know it but instead having to do with how he returns.
I found a few verse here that might be of interest to you.
Revelation 16:15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
1 Thessalonians 5:
1-6 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
God bless,
Alex
Rene:
--- Quote from: zander on September 26, 2014, 10:44:56 AM ---
1. When the resurrection happens, are the dead raised as physical bodies or spiritual bodies?
2. When it occurs, what happens to the people already here on earth alive?
--- End quote ---
Hi zander,
Here is a link to a short paper Ray wrote on "Physical or Spiritual Resurrection Bodies." Hopefully this will help you get a better understanding.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html
René
zander:
Thanks.
So as I see it then at the moment, we are raised as PHYSICAL bodies. Strange, as I always thought I recalled Ray saying that being judged as a spirit, you could still be judged as spiritual flesh. My spirit is clearly still flesh, so whether I am judged in the physical or the spiritual I am still judged as flesh (hate that word lol). Then there is Ray saying he will never see his physical body anymore after he dies. I am sure Ray was not arrogant enough to assume he was one of the elect, at least he never came across that way.
To be fair the resurrection poses a raft of other questions for me:
When Christ arrives, what happens to physical people - believers and non?
When the dead are resurrected - and there are millions/billions? of them - how do they fit into this planet all of a sudden?
What exactly happens here once Jesus is here?
Many questions but I am not expecting straightforward answers.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: zander on September 27, 2014, 12:32:04 PM ---Thanks.
So as I see it then at the moment, we are raised as PHYSICAL bodies. Strange, as I always thought I recalled Ray saying that being judged as a spirit, you could still be judged as spiritual flesh. My spirit is clearly still flesh, so whether I am judged in the physical or the spiritual I am still judged as flesh (hate that word lol). Then there is Ray saying he will never see his physical body anymore after he dies. I am sure Ray was not arrogant enough to assume he was one of the elect, at least he never came across that way.
To be fair the resurrection poses a raft of other questions for me:
When Christ arrives, what happens to physical people - believers and non?
When the dead are resurrected - and there are millions/billions? of them - how do they fit into this planet all of a sudden?
What exactly happens here once Jesus is here?
Many questions but I am not expecting straightforward answers.
--- End quote ---
Zander, a lot of your questions about the Resurrection can be answered by reading ray's papers.
Revelation says the "Sea will be no more," while this can be and is indeed a spiritual saying--The sea of humanity will be no more, the carnal God hating sea of humanity. It could also be literal; That is, the sea will vanish to provide room for the billions and billions of humans that will be resurrected. I'm speculating on the second more literal interpretation but I hope you understand that your questions have answers, you just need to study these things and most of them are already explained to you by ray in an eloquent and easy to understand manner.
God be with you,
Alex
Dave in Tenn:
As hard as it is to fathom, a significant portion of all the people who have ever lived are alive today. There's more than enough 'room' for all of us.
Don't ask me how this all is accomplished. I don't even know how Jesus was raised from the dead. I just believe He was. He was raised in a glorified, spiritual, immortal body. Those who are chosen in Him will be raised similarly. Those He raised from the dead in His ministry (and those the Apostles raised), were NOT raised in glorified, immortal bodies. Those raised to future judgement will be raised in a similar state to them. That's a straight answer, even if it's 'wrong'.
That's the best I can do. Be sure and read the link Rene provided.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version