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Author Topic: Jesus/soilders  (Read 5258 times)

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ryman

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Jesus/soilders
« on: October 22, 2014, 01:28:12 PM »

I thought I came across ray not supporting those who fight the enemy.

What's your guy's take in this verse?
He doesn't tell them to stop fighting and love their enemy does he?

Luke 3:14 ESV
Soldiers also asked him, "And we, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages."

Young's literal

LK 3:14 And questioning him also were those warring, saying, `And we, what shall we do?' and he said unto them, `Do violence to no one, nor accuse falsely, and be content with your wages.'

Violence? Is that not contradicting their job?
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 02:42:04 PM »

No one with the Spirit of God within them can kill or be a soldier, whose job it is to kill at the behest of others.

Jesus said those who take the sword will die by the sword.

Only God can kill righteously because only He has the power to give life.



P.S.  For those without understanding, please do not quote the Scripture about Cornelius, who was a soldier and among the first of the gentiles to be baptized with the Spirit.  The Scriptures do not tell us that he remained a centurion.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:50:21 PM by John from Kentucky »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 02:52:51 PM »

Hi Ryman,

Can you please share the quote in question from ray where you feel their is contention? It would help greatly in addressing your question.

I searched real quickly the verse you feel is confusing. Two things to note quickly,

1. This is John the baptist speaking and the teaching of "love your enemies" came by Christ. John's understanding of God was still by way of the "veil." He still was living under the letter of the law that kills.

2. Only by the Holy Spirit come after Christ ascended back to heaven did the law of Spirit and life take affect because only by faith(that gift) and the Spirit of God in us can we abide in Christ.

As JFK stated, no one with the spirit of Christ will be a soldier whose job is to kill.

Luk 3:14 Now soldiers also inquired of him, saying, "What should we also be doing? And he said to them, "You should be intimidating no one, neither be blackmailing, and be sufficed with your rations." (CLV)

Notice here in this translation, there is nothing about not killing. Remember that the old testament commandment was "though shalt not MURDER." Killing and murdering are two different things.

That being said, Christ showed us that the law of God was and is spiritual and so goes beyond this by saying "Agape your enemies," "turn the other cheek," "leave room for the vengeance of God," (Paul) etc....

Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

Hope this helps some,
Alex

P.S. I feel I should add here that either way there is no contradiction between what John the baptist told these soldiers and what Christ taught.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:57:55 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

ryman

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 03:02:09 PM »

I agree. It would go against his character and everything he taught.

Its kind of funny though, how most churches do support the soilders to kill for freedom, they say its for freedom to worship a God that now says love your enemy. Freedom to worship a God that will himself torture billions. Its amazing.


You answered while I was writing. Thanks for that.

I've been reading so much I can't tell you at the moment on ray. I thought I came across it somewhere.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 03:06:52 PM by ryman »
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Arion

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 03:44:34 PM »

There are a lot of Christians in the military but not a lot of the chosen I would imagine.  I was in the military for years and ready to kill for my country.  And of course the chaplains job is to assuage the consciences of the soldier's because after all aren't we fighting for good against the 'terrorists' or in my day the 'Godless Communists'.  Yep....lets kill for Christ.  That boat doesn't float.

I thought at one time in my foolish youth that you can serve God and country.  Then I grew up.  It's simply not possible.  It's one or the other.  If I'm armed and someone attempts to murder me, my wife, kids, ect then I'll defend them.  But I will no longer wear a uniform and kill for those that are sitting safe and secure in their cozy palaces of power and have no regards for human life. 

And believe me I know all the arguments pro/con and I don't attempt to argue with people anymore.  God has to do a work in the heart and show us the truth of these things.
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Kat

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 03:55:41 PM »


Here is an email on this.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1719.0.html ------

I printed EVERYTHING on your site and arranged it into books, my eyes were OPENED, my wallet EMPTIED from buying ink cartridges. LOL.. I have one question that is really bothering me. In two instances you made semi-negative remarks about serving in the military or CHURCHES  that are pushing military service. Also I seem to remember some surprising remarks that our nations founding principles were not Christian in nature. I am going by memory, so forgive me if my impressions are off base. What about the scriptures that "The state does not wield the sword in vain", and that Roman soldier converts were told to be happy with their pay and not extort, but NOT told to leave their position, etc... Could you clarify your position? Certainly our nation is NOT perfect, but we have done much to "restrain evil in the world". Historically I don't think any nation with the power we have has ever used it so sparingly. I am a militar y retiree and served my country honorably and faithfully. Probably my patriotism and conservative political idealism are idols of the heart. I know my zest for politics is fading rapidly. Shouldn't we do all we can to restrain evil, as a policeman, soldier, politician,etc?
Please answer as I REALLY WANT THE TRUTH and am not trying pick an argument.


Dear Austin:
Yes, God has ordained "the powers that be," and there is no power or authority except by God.  Does this somehow "prove" that these powers are "Christ like?" I think not. One CANNOT turn the other cheek while shooting your enemy in the stomach--that is what we would call a contradiction of doctrine or philosophy.
 
God doesn't hate soldiers, but neither has He called and chosen them to be His very Elect either, while serving in the capacity of professionally trained killers..  Suppose a professional soldier (who literally kills people for a living) becomes a Believer in Christ Jesus. We know that to follow Jesus we must first repent.  Are you suggesting that "killing people" would NOT be one of the things he would repent of?  That he would have to repent of telling lies, lusting after pretty girls, stealing cookies from the cookie jar, but that he would NOT HAVE TO REPENT OF KILLING PEOPLE to protect his nation?  Think about it.  There was a time when True Believers looked to God to protect them from their enemies, not to the number of tanks and bombers they possessed.
 
God be with you,
Ray
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 04:52:09 PM »


Here is an email on this.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1719.0.html ------

I printed EVERYTHING on your site and arranged it into books, my eyes were OPENED, my wallet EMPTIED from buying ink cartridges. LOL.. I have one question that is really bothering me. In two instances you made semi-negative remarks about serving in the military or CHURCHES  that are pushing military service. Also I seem to remember some surprising remarks that our nations founding principles were not Christian in nature. I am going by memory, so forgive me if my impressions are off base. What about the scriptures that "The state does not wield the sword in vain", and that Roman soldier converts were told to be happy with their pay and not extort, but NOT told to leave their position, etc... Could you clarify your position? Certainly our nation is NOT perfect, but we have done much to "restrain evil in the world". Historically I don't think any nation with the power we have has ever used it so sparingly. I am a militar y retiree and served my country honorably and faithfully. Probably my patriotism and conservative political idealism are idols of the heart. I know my zest for politics is fading rapidly. Shouldn't we do all we can to restrain evil, as a policeman, soldier, politician,etc?
Please answer as I REALLY WANT THE TRUTH and am not trying pick an argument.


Dear Austin:
Yes, God has ordained "the powers that be," and there is no power or authority except by God.  Does this somehow "prove" that these powers are "Christ like?" I think not. One CANNOT turn the other cheek while shooting your enemy in the stomach--that is what we would call a contradiction of doctrine or philosophy.
 
God doesn't hate soldiers, but neither has He called and chosen them to be His very Elect either, while serving in the capacity of professionally trained killers..  Suppose a professional soldier (who literally kills people for a living) becomes a Believer in Christ Jesus. We know that to follow Jesus we must first repent.  Are you suggesting that "killing people" would NOT be one of the things he would repent of?  That he would have to repent of telling lies, lusting after pretty girls, stealing cookies from the cookie jar, but that he would NOT HAVE TO REPENT OF KILLING PEOPLE to protect his nation?  Think about it.  There was a time when True Believers looked to God to protect them from their enemies, not to the number of tanks and bombers they possessed.
 
God be with you,
Ray

Excellent find Kat!

Indeed, God is our strength!

Some of my favorite verses regarding our faith and hope in God:

Isaiah 33:22 "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us."

Psalm 46:1 To the choirmaster. Of the Sons of Korah. According to Alamoth. A Song. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Psalm 31:1-3 In thee, O Lord, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in thy righteousness. Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me. For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.

Psalm 7:10  My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

Psalm 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.

Psalm 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them.

Isaiah 51:7 "Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings." 12-13, "I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass; And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?"

Yup.... I could pretty much go all day with these awesome emphatic declarations of our Mighty God! Truly there is no other god above our God!

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:19:54 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Ian 155

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 05:47:04 AM »



Jesus said those who take the sword will die by the sword.



Once one 'takes up the sword' one dies to the things of this world and one lives unto Christ (I have a two edged sword in my mouth) ;)
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Kat

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2014, 01:21:17 PM »


Once one 'takes up the sword' one dies to the things of this world and one lives unto Christ (I have a two edged sword in my mouth) ;)

Yes Ian that is a good example of there being a natural/physical understanding, but the same also has a spiritual application as well.

1Co 15:46  However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

People in the world/church can only see the physical/natural/literal meaning of the words in Scripture and there is a truth to that, BUT that holds only the meaning for this temporary physical world and holds only death, physically and spiritually.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:13  For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Even "for all who take the sword will perish by the sword" has a real physical application (as Alex showed) and a higher spiritual meaning (as you showed) as well. But there is also levels of understanding the spiritual as well, as you gain knowledge you can gain more spiritual insight... you can see a spiritual meaning in a Scripture one time and come back later and gain even more meaning in the same Scripture.

Here is a piece from the article 'Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word' that shows how the whole physical creation in this age, what all must experience first, is only carnal minded vanity, as Paul said is nothing but a body of death.

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm --------------------

Here is how GOD says He created Adam and Eve:

"For the creature was made subject to vanity [King James Margin: "futility"], not willingly, but by reason of Him [God] Who has subjected [Gk: ‘subjects’—aorist tense—subjecting is still going on] the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).

In Dante’s inferno, "all hope is gone…," but in God’s realm He subjects the entire creation "…in HOPE,"

God willfully, wantingly, knowingly, purposely, and wisely, created mankind "subject to vanity," subject to failure, but beyond the failure, God also subjects the same in "hope." Once again, contrary to all orthodox doctrine, there is hope for all of God’s carnal-minded, God-hating people on planet Earth. God Himself says so, in the same breath: "because the creature itself [the same creation that God subjects to vanity, futility, failure, and carnal-minded hatred against God] also shall be [ah, did you catch that? ‘shall be’], delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21). Do you believe the Scriptures? Really—what about this one?

And so God, "made the creature subject to vanity"—failure, but later in mankind’s development, the creature "shall be"— [future tense]… shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption." Ah yes, God created them in a condition of "bondage" and "corruption," and therefore not "immortal" as is taught, but rather in "bondage of corruption." But thanks to God, in the resurrection of the dead, ‘…this corruption must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality’ (I Cor. 15:54).

Yes, of course, first comes the PHYSICAL (death), and then the SPIRITUAL (life). There it is—the hope of all humanity. Corruption and mortality (the physical first) must put on incorruption and immortality [the afterward spiritual).
----------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Ian 155

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2014, 01:51:42 PM »

Hey Kat I have no problems with this ...I was moved to look up Peters removal of the soldiers ear, and the prompt restoration of his hearing by Jesus ...that is pretty "loaded" in itself .

Awesome word this
apologies,
soldier should read "servant" of the high priest -hope i'm not responsable for cutting off spiritual ears
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 02:01:49 PM by Ian 155 »
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Kat

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2014, 03:17:45 PM »


Right Ian, just wanted to bring what you and Alex was saying together for the sake of those newer ones here that have not heard all these discussions before.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2014, 04:33:34 PM »



Jesus said those who take the sword will die by the sword.



Once one 'takes up the sword' one dies to the things of this world and one lives unto Christ (I have a two edged sword in my mouth) ;)

Sometimes you give us a spiritual meaning of a verse, which is just your opinion.  Two witnesses are needed to establish a spiritual truth, which takes discernment from God.

I don't see the Scriptures that say humans have a two-edged sword in their mouths.  I see where the word of God is like a two-edged sword, and that Jesus has this two-edged sword because He is the Word of God. 

Your teaching contradicts what Jesus said, so I hit the snooze button.


The point is, the true followers of Jesus are like Him, we do not kill or follow the ways of violence.  We trust in Him for our protection.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 10:29:05 PM by John from Kentucky »
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Ian 155

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 07:56:22 PM »

John,Just stating, the sword\word does have two edges - you're right Kat sometimes I dont think of those that are new to the forum .thanx for the wake up call.

The sword Peter used was not necessary bad for the servant of the high priest, though Jesus did say "enough now" my translation - the same servant was used in a confrontational/exposure role ,a little while later which as you know caused a dimension shift in Peter.

Paul also had to use the sword correcting a later indiscretion of Peter.

Re the scriptures there are a few - john 15v7,8 "if you abide in me and my word abides in You  .... Duet 6v6 Prov 4v4

There was a stage where i was involved in the armed forces and killed with intent, what is the difference If I say to my brother "RACA" or even if I happen to just think the thought"I could just Kill you " right now.

Certain understandings I once had were put to death by the sword.

The word is the sword of God yes? (btw that is a genuine question)

There is Lots to contemplate in the original question Ryman posed.

Show me where you think what I stated contradicts, so I can repent and move on.

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John from Kentucky

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2014, 10:22:35 PM »

John,Just stating, the sword\word does have two edges - you're right Kat sometimes I dont think of those that are new to the forum .thanx for the wake up call.

The sword Peter used was not necessary bad for the servant of the high priest, though Jesus did say "enough now" my translation - the same servant was used in a confrontational/exposure role ,a little while later which as you know caused a dimension shift in Peter.

Paul also had to use the sword correcting a later indiscretion of Peter.

Re the scriptures there are a few - john 15v7,8 "if you abide in me and my word abides in You  .... Duet 6v6 Prov 4v4

There was a stage where i was involved in the armed forces and killed with intent, what is the difference If I say to my brother "RACA" or even if I happen to just think the thought"I could just Kill you " right now.

Certain understandings I once had were put to death by the sword.

The word is the sword of God yes? (btw that is a genuine question)

There is Lots to contemplate in the original question Ryman posed.

Show me where you think what I stated contradicts, so I can repent and move on.


...and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.  Eph 6:17

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.  Heb 4:12
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Kat

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2014, 11:13:02 PM »


So that is your proof Scripture John? Surely you know the passage in Ephesians is speaking to the "brethren" to "take... the sword of the Spirit."

Eph 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
v. 11  Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
v. 12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
v. 13  Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
v. 14  Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
v. 15  and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
v. 16  above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
v. 17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

Surely you know the those believers who have the Spirit indwelling do learn how to wield the truth of the Scripture.

2Tim 2:15  Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (NKJV)

2Tim 2:15  Give diligence, thyself, approved, to present unto God,—a workman not to be put to shame, skillfully handling the word of truth. (Rotherham)

2Tim 2:15 Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth." (CLV)
 
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2014, 11:56:46 PM »


So that is your proof Scripture John? Surely you know the passage in Ephesians is speaking to the "brethren" to "take... the sword of the Spirit."

Eph 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
v. 11  Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
v. 12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
v. 13  Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
v. 14  Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
v. 15  and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
v. 16  above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
v. 17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

Surely you know the those believers who have the Spirit indwelling do learn how to wield the truth of the Scripture.

2Tim 2:15  Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (NKJV)

2Tim 2:15  Give diligence, thyself, approved, to present unto God,—a workman not to be put to shame, skillfully handling the word of truth. (Rotherham)

2Tim 2:15 Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth." (CLV)
 
mercy, peace and love
Kat

No need to get all riled up, Kat.

Ian asked a question, I quote, "The word is the sword of God yes? (btw that is a genuine question)".

I answered the question with two Scriptures.  End of story.

The Scriptures explain its own symbols.  A sword  in many places symbolizes the word of God, which is Jesus.  In Genesis, we have the flaming sword turning every which way guarding the Tree of Life, which is also Jesus.  Flames and Fire also represent Jesus.  And of course, the Cherubim guard the throne of God (Jesus), see Genesis and Ezechiel 1.

However, in the Garden, when Peter was going commando on that guy and cut off his ear, Jesus was not using the word sword in its symbolic sense.  He was literally telling Peter not to take the way of violence.  Jesus' Kingdom is not of this world.  Jesus said that he could have called upon twelve legions of angels (around 72,000) to defend Himself, if force were needed.

But Jesus did not take the way of violent force in this age.  Neither should we.  That's my point.  Easy peasy.
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Ian 155

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2014, 03:36:06 AM »

Peter partially removed Malchus ability to hear Jesus restored it -- Fully

The spiritual implications of Peters actions are huge is what im saying

If you believe this was only a little physical altercation where Peter is "sticking up for Jesus", we best leave it there and continue with the topic.

There were/are those who defend the "gospel" by torturing people literally thru incorrect interpretation

And there were/are those who defend the gospel who have caused great harm spiritually 

There are those who believe the good report and some the bad report ---2 edges

whos report do you believe
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 03:42:00 AM by Ian 155 »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2014, 03:40:07 AM »


So that is your proof Scripture John? Surely you know the passage in Ephesians is speaking to the "brethren" to "take... the sword of the Spirit."

Eph 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
v. 11  Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
v. 12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
v. 13  Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
v. 14  Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
v. 15  and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
v. 16  above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
v. 17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

Surely you know the those believers who have the Spirit indwelling do learn how to wield the truth of the Scripture.

2Tim 2:15  Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (NKJV)

2Tim 2:15  Give diligence, thyself, approved, to present unto God,—a workman not to be put to shame, skillfully handling the word of truth. (Rotherham)

2Tim 2:15 Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth." (CLV)
 
mercy, peace and love
Kat

No need to get all riled up, Kat.

Ian asked a question, I quote, "The word is the sword of God yes? (btw that is a genuine question)".

I answered the question with two Scriptures.  End of story.

The Scriptures explain its own symbols.  A sword  in many places symbolizes the word of God, which is Jesus.  In Genesis, we have the flaming sword turning every which way guarding the Tree of Life, which is also Jesus.  Flames and Fire also represent Jesus.  And of course, the Cherubim guard the throne of God (Jesus), see Genesis and Ezechiel 1.

However, in the Garden, when Peter was going commando on that guy and cut off his ear, Jesus was not using the word sword in its symbolic sense.  He was literally telling Peter not to take the way of violence.  Jesus' Kingdom is not of this world.  Jesus said that he could have called upon twelve legions of angels (around 72,000) to defend Himself, if force were needed.

But Jesus did not take the way of violent force in this age.  Neither should we.  That's my point.  Easy peasy.

Isn't it possible that there could be a spiritual application to this account though? A spiritual lesson to be learned from peter's physical actions?

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Granted I don't have a scripture verse that matches the "cutting off of the ear" as offending or harming someone's spiritual well being. Though there are many reference to the importance of not simply "seeing" the words of the spirit but "hearing" it too. Without an ear, you can't really hear quite as well now can you?

Just some thoughts.. I don't know where I stand on this interpretation of peter's actions in the garden but I have heard it before. I will pray about it.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Ian 155

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2014, 04:14:36 AM »

there are a few I discovered Alex
Rev 11v1-14
psalm 149v6\
Prov 5v4
Judges 3 v 13,14,15  and many more

Point is the word is duel two meanings /2 edges
1st your literal understanding which is then divided when one gets spiritual enlightenment.
carnal ears 1st then spiritual - water 1st then wine

“But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22 v36-Rev 3v18

the process of a literal sword being beaten into a spiritual ploughshare takes on new meaning 
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 04:29:48 AM by Ian 155 »
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Kat

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Re: Jesus/soilders
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2014, 11:56:26 AM »


I don't see the Scriptures that say humans have a two-edged sword in their mouths.  I see where the word of God is like a two-edged sword, and that Jesus has this two-edged sword because He is the Word of God. 

Well John this was the comment I was addressing in particular. I totally agree that "A sword  in many places symbolizes the word of God, which is Jesus." My point in the Scripture I posted was that believers certainly can wield the two edged sword as well.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 02:59:05 PM by Kat »
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