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Jesus/soilders
Kat:
Here is an email on this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1719.0.html ------
I printed EVERYTHING on your site and arranged it into books, my eyes were OPENED, my wallet EMPTIED from buying ink cartridges. LOL.. I have one question that is really bothering me. In two instances you made semi-negative remarks about serving in the military or CHURCHES that are pushing military service. Also I seem to remember some surprising remarks that our nations founding principles were not Christian in nature. I am going by memory, so forgive me if my impressions are off base. What about the scriptures that "The state does not wield the sword in vain", and that Roman soldier converts were told to be happy with their pay and not extort, but NOT told to leave their position, etc... Could you clarify your position? Certainly our nation is NOT perfect, but we have done much to "restrain evil in the world". Historically I don't think any nation with the power we have has ever used it so sparingly. I am a militar y retiree and served my country honorably and faithfully. Probably my patriotism and conservative political idealism are idols of the heart. I know my zest for politics is fading rapidly. Shouldn't we do all we can to restrain evil, as a policeman, soldier, politician,etc?
Please answer as I REALLY WANT THE TRUTH and am not trying pick an argument.
Dear Austin:
Yes, God has ordained "the powers that be," and there is no power or authority except by God. Does this somehow "prove" that these powers are "Christ like?" I think not. One CANNOT turn the other cheek while shooting your enemy in the stomach--that is what we would call a contradiction of doctrine or philosophy.
God doesn't hate soldiers, but neither has He called and chosen them to be His very Elect either, while serving in the capacity of professionally trained killers.. Suppose a professional soldier (who literally kills people for a living) becomes a Believer in Christ Jesus. We know that to follow Jesus we must first repent. Are you suggesting that "killing people" would NOT be one of the things he would repent of? That he would have to repent of telling lies, lusting after pretty girls, stealing cookies from the cookie jar, but that he would NOT HAVE TO REPENT OF KILLING PEOPLE to protect his nation? Think about it. There was a time when True Believers looked to God to protect them from their enemies, not to the number of tanks and bombers they possessed.
God be with you,
Ray
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Kat on October 22, 2014, 12:55:41 PM ---
Here is an email on this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1719.0.html ------
I printed EVERYTHING on your site and arranged it into books, my eyes were OPENED, my wallet EMPTIED from buying ink cartridges. LOL.. I have one question that is really bothering me. In two instances you made semi-negative remarks about serving in the military or CHURCHES that are pushing military service. Also I seem to remember some surprising remarks that our nations founding principles were not Christian in nature. I am going by memory, so forgive me if my impressions are off base. What about the scriptures that "The state does not wield the sword in vain", and that Roman soldier converts were told to be happy with their pay and not extort, but NOT told to leave their position, etc... Could you clarify your position? Certainly our nation is NOT perfect, but we have done much to "restrain evil in the world". Historically I don't think any nation with the power we have has ever used it so sparingly. I am a militar y retiree and served my country honorably and faithfully. Probably my patriotism and conservative political idealism are idols of the heart. I know my zest for politics is fading rapidly. Shouldn't we do all we can to restrain evil, as a policeman, soldier, politician,etc?
Please answer as I REALLY WANT THE TRUTH and am not trying pick an argument.
Dear Austin:
Yes, God has ordained "the powers that be," and there is no power or authority except by God. Does this somehow "prove" that these powers are "Christ like?" I think not. One CANNOT turn the other cheek while shooting your enemy in the stomach--that is what we would call a contradiction of doctrine or philosophy.
God doesn't hate soldiers, but neither has He called and chosen them to be His very Elect either, while serving in the capacity of professionally trained killers.. Suppose a professional soldier (who literally kills people for a living) becomes a Believer in Christ Jesus. We know that to follow Jesus we must first repent. Are you suggesting that "killing people" would NOT be one of the things he would repent of? That he would have to repent of telling lies, lusting after pretty girls, stealing cookies from the cookie jar, but that he would NOT HAVE TO REPENT OF KILLING PEOPLE to protect his nation? Think about it. There was a time when True Believers looked to God to protect them from their enemies, not to the number of tanks and bombers they possessed.
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Excellent find Kat!
Indeed, God is our strength!
Some of my favorite verses regarding our faith and hope in God:
Isaiah 33:22 "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us."
Psalm 46:1 To the choirmaster. Of the Sons of Korah. According to Alamoth. A Song. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
Psalm 31:1-3 In thee, O Lord, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in thy righteousness. Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me. For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.
Psalm 7:10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
Psalm 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.
Psalm 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them.
Isaiah 51:7 "Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings." 12-13, "I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass; And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?"
Yup.... I could pretty much go all day with these awesome emphatic declarations of our Mighty God! Truly there is no other god above our God!
God bless,
Alex
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on October 22, 2014, 11:42:04 AM ---
Jesus said those who take the sword will die by the sword.
--- End quote ---
Once one 'takes up the sword' one dies to the things of this world and one lives unto Christ (I have a two edged sword in my mouth) ;)
Kat:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on October 23, 2014, 02:47:04 AM ---Once one 'takes up the sword' one dies to the things of this world and one lives unto Christ (I have a two edged sword in my mouth) ;)
--- End quote ---
Yes Ian that is a good example of there being a natural/physical understanding, but the same also has a spiritual application as well.
1Co 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
People in the world/church can only see the physical/natural/literal meaning of the words in Scripture and there is a truth to that, BUT that holds only the meaning for this temporary physical world and holds only death, physically and spiritually.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Even "for all who take the sword will perish by the sword" has a real physical application (as Alex showed) and a higher spiritual meaning (as you showed) as well. But there is also levels of understanding the spiritual as well, as you gain knowledge you can gain more spiritual insight... you can see a spiritual meaning in a Scripture one time and come back later and gain even more meaning in the same Scripture.
Here is a piece from the article 'Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word' that shows how the whole physical creation in this age, what all must experience first, is only carnal minded vanity, as Paul said is nothing but a body of death.
http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm --------------------
Here is how GOD says He created Adam and Eve:
"For the creature was made subject to vanity [King James Margin: "futility"], not willingly, but by reason of Him [God] Who has subjected [Gk: ‘subjects’—aorist tense—subjecting is still going on] the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).
In Dante’s inferno, "all hope is gone…," but in God’s realm He subjects the entire creation "…in HOPE,"
God willfully, wantingly, knowingly, purposely, and wisely, created mankind "subject to vanity," subject to failure, but beyond the failure, God also subjects the same in "hope." Once again, contrary to all orthodox doctrine, there is hope for all of God’s carnal-minded, God-hating people on planet Earth. God Himself says so, in the same breath: "because the creature itself [the same creation that God subjects to vanity, futility, failure, and carnal-minded hatred against God] also shall be [ah, did you catch that? ‘shall be’], delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21). Do you believe the Scriptures? Really—what about this one?
And so God, "made the creature subject to vanity"—failure, but later in mankind’s development, the creature "shall be"— [future tense]… shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption." Ah yes, God created them in a condition of "bondage" and "corruption," and therefore not "immortal" as is taught, but rather in "bondage of corruption." But thanks to God, in the resurrection of the dead, ‘…this corruption must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality’ (I Cor. 15:54).
Yes, of course, first comes the PHYSICAL (death), and then the SPIRITUAL (life). There it is—the hope of all humanity. Corruption and mortality (the physical first) must put on incorruption and immortality [the afterward spiritual).
----------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ian 155:
Hey Kat I have no problems with this ...I was moved to look up Peters removal of the soldiers ear, and the prompt restoration of his hearing by Jesus ...that is pretty "loaded" in itself .
Awesome word this
apologies,
soldier should read "servant" of the high priest -hope i'm not responsable for cutting off spiritual ears
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