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ignorant sin versus willful sin

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orion77:
(Psa 19:9)  The fear of Jehovah is clean, enduring for ever: The ordinances of Jehovah are true, and righteous altogether.

(Psa 19:10)  More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the droppings of the honeycomb.

(Psa 19:11)  Moreover by them is thy servant warned: In keeping them there is great reward.

(Psa 19:12)  Who can discern his errors? Clear thou me from hidden faults.

(Psa 19:13)  Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; Let them not have dominion over me: Then shall I be upright, And I shall be clear from great transgression.

(Psa 19:14)  Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in thy sight, O Jehovah, my rock, and my redeemer.


Knowing how mistake ridden I am, these verses always have helped, and hope God can see His way past my many faults. 

God bless,

Gary

Laren:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on August 09, 2006, 10:47:34 PM ---Laren,

You have a very good habit of starting interesting threads, I have been thinking about this subject alot tonight, here is more;

2Pe 2:20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
 
2Pe 2:21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
 
2Pe 2:22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Joe

--- End quote ---

great verses, makes sense to me.  But now I struggle with God's sovereign plan with that.  Why enlighten someone, have them turn away, and then chastise them more for it?  I guess I sound like the one's Paul talked about:

Rom 9:19  "Why then does God still find fault?" you will ask; "for who is resisting His will?"
Rom 9:20  Nay, but who are you, a mere man, that you should cavil against GOD? SHALL THE THING MOULDED SAY TO HIM WHO MOULDED IT, "WHY HAVE YOU MADE ME THUS?"
Rom 9:21  Or has not the potter rightful power over the clay to make out of the same lump one vessel for more honourable and another for less honourable uses?
Rom 9:22  And what if God, while choosing to make manifest the terrors of His anger and to show what is possible with Him, has yet borne with long-forbearing patience with the subjects of His anger who stand ready for destruction,
Rom 9:23  in order to make known His infinite goodness towards the subjects of His mercy whom He has prepared beforehand for glory,
Rom 9:24  even towards us whom He has called not only from among the Jews but also from among the Gentiles?
 

Laren:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on August 13, 2006, 04:57:19 PM ---Hi Laren,

You ask why would God "enlighten someone and have them turn away?" I don't know. Why does God call many but not all? I don't know. Why would God choose a few and not many? I don't know.

There are so many things about the mind of God that any and all of us are incompetent to understand and explain. The most important thing I have learned in the past year is not the wisdom and knowledge of events to come or of that outside of our relationship with Him one on one. What I am trying to say is that the most miraculous and wonderful evidence of His power and plan is what He has done within me, this beast.

I am a selfish, pleasure seeking, dominant bully who will do whatever it takes to meet my appetites, anything. I have lived my life like that for decades never really caring about the fallout or who I left in my wake. I am impatient, condescending and facetious, this is my natural state.

The Lord has seen fit to remove many if not most of these traits, but now even when I just think of doing what gave me so much pleasure in the past my stomach knots up like a a string of line in a Navy cadet training class. Why? I don't know.

There is so much wisdom and knowledge for us to consume, is this more important than striving for the "fruits of the spirit?" Will obtaining the "fruits of the spirit" give us a better understanding of His wisdom and plan? This time I can say YES, instead of "I don't know" when we look to be inclusive, seeing all as brothers and sisters (until they conclusively prove otherwise) with, prayer and encouragement for even those we do not consider family and friends that is when we are displaying these fruits and the windows of understanding will open even wider.

His Peace to you Brother,

Joe

--- End quote ---

Thanks Joe, your post really spoke to me.  I too am in the process of my carnal mind being destroyed and the life of Christ living through me.  I have gotten to the point where my search for answers often leaves me in a feeling of restlessness, and no peace.  Sometimes, I think  my search for truth has become my idol rather than being a Mary resting at his feet. 

Abiding in Him, that's where it is at. 

Joh 15:4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.


   

Kat:
  I would like to say something about ignorant sin.
 None of us know all the truth, right. So we are all lliving with a limited understading of what is right and wrong, to various degrees, of course. So if I do or say something that I think is right and good, when it is in truth a sin, is this not ignorant sin?

chuckusa:
Kat,

This brings a point to my mind. What about accountability? To what degree are we required to "know" what sin is? Does that make any sense?

Like for example, saying you didn't "know" you couldn't drive 125 on the interstate. Is it that once we have heard the words of our Lord, do we have a different type of accountability than say someone who had never heard. I'm trying not to exclude the concept of "free will", because of course, that would be at the core of this concept. I'm trying to find some of Rays material that directly talks about this.

Any thoughts?

Chuck

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