Tempted.

[Ian 155]

So, I suppose God doesn't know what it is to be a dolphin or an elephant??? What happened to the ALL-KNOWING attribute?

Respectfully submitted.

The Father Absolutely is all knowing hence,

Joh 13:15  For I have given you an example, that ye also should do as I have done to you.

1Pe 2:21  For hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1Co 11:1  Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.

[Kat]

Hello Kat!

I share indianabob's position that the Father knows ALL, even what it is to be human WITHOUT having to become one. I agree with you that Jesus, the Son of God, laid down his life out of love for us. But He didn't do it ONLY to prove to us that He loves us. He had another reason that is contemplated in the Law. Don't you think that His very act of creating us demonstrates His love for us?

In a future post, I will finish the point I'm trying to make. I must go to bed now. I worked all night having slept only four hours the previous day. I am exhausted!

Hi theophilus, yes everything that God has done for us was out of love, everything. I think a very important aspect of His coming into the flesh was in showing us this very special act of love, as He was willing to take on this very daunting physical existence, as God (having always been in a very glorious existence), experiencing the very same thing that we have to go through. Not because He had to, it was determined to be the best way to do it, because They knew we as physical beings 'needed' to actually see Him do it physically/literally, so He volunteered to do it to show us just how much He does love us.

Here is where Ray spoke on this in the 2007 conference transcript 'How did Jesus Do "The Father's Will".'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3633.msg27129.html#msg27129 ---

Phil. 2: 7-8 "But He  made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made [emptied Himself of His glory and privileges] in the likeness of men. Being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also has high exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name."

John 3:16  For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting (Eonian) life."

Why did God do that? Why did Christ volunteer to go to the cross? Well I've been told all my life that He died for my sins. But did He have to? Did He have to die for our sins? Is there no way to pardon sins, out of His love and mercy? Couldn't He say, okay you have sinned, but I pardon you. After all what is grace. 

Eph 2:8  "For by grace you have been saved through faith." 

Grace will save you, so why die? Did Christ have to die? Why did God want to die? Why would God want to become a man? When I say God I'm talking about Jehovah now, Jesus Christ. Did the Father 'make' His Son Jesus die? Did He 'take' His Son's life? NO! 

John 10:17  For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it up again.
v. 18  No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father."

Jesus VOLUNTEERED HIS LIFE for us !!! While we were yet sinners (Rom. 5:08).

What the law couldn't do and we couldn't do, CHRIST DID (Rom. 8:3).

We must experience sin before we can be saved from it! How did Elohim come to a know of "good and evil?" We aren't told.

Why did God want to become a man and die? Well there are a number of reasons. Jesus Christ is the First fruit, He is the Word, He is the Creator of all and so on. He made this human race and He gave them (all with the direction of the Father -Elohim) an experience of evil, which is not a nice thing. God did not say there is nothing wrong with evil, just sit back and enjoy it, He doesn't talk like that. 

Eze 33:11  "Say to them:  As I live, says the Lord Jehovah,  I have no delight in the death of the wicked,"

God made us, He put us through it, but we will never in all eternity, be able to have a one-upmanship over God, by saying you don't know what it's like. It's already decided. First of all, God gave up His Son, and for any of you that are parents, it is harder to give up a son than it is to give up yourself.

Now Christ is the actual Creator, He reduced Himself down to the very humans He made, to be just like them. Except He had the spirit of God. So He came down to show us how to live as a human being, under all duress, stress, and mess. He did it humbly and perfectly. So He set us an example and He could have stopped there. He could say I went through hunger, they tried to throw me off cliffs, they slapped Me, they mocked Me, they put spears in My side and I could have zapped them in a second. I let them do that for 33 years and never fought back, and never had a evil thought against them. 

He showed you how to live and He could have quite. But after He did all that, He said now I'm going to die for you, because I love you. Think about it, He didn't have to die, nobody took His life. He said I lay down My life and "no one takes it from Me," (John 10:18).

He died to prove to us that He loves us. He didn't have to, He just did it. So we would know that He loves us. We can't say, but our Creator had it made in the shade, no. He came down and was under the same temptations, under the same rules and regulations and then He went to the cross and died, voluntarily. He says in effect, if that doesn't show that I love you, I don't know what else I can do.

So that's what He did and that's why He died, because He loved us and He wanted to prove it. So He died for our sins. God excepted that for a sacrifice, but it was a voluntary sacrifice. It wouldn't have needed to be done, they did it that way, but it didn't need to be done that way. They (Israelites) were forgiven for a whole year, just by the sprinkling of a goat's blood, in the Holy place on the Day of Pentecost.

But Christ wanted to prove to the human race that He was every bit as good of a man, as any other man was. He doesn't sit in His ivory tower telling us how great He is. He did it as a man. God became a man and died, because He loves His creation and He wanted us to know He loves us. This is awesome stuff. It's like a fairytale from Greek mythology, but it's not, it the Bible.

So He puts us through hell to get us in His family. It's necessary to go through this pain and suffering and evil, to become holy, righteous, and good, you have to go through it.

I got as email just yesterday, a man said anybody that couldn't do what God wants to do  for humanity, instantly, is not God. Some things, by there very nature, require time and circumstances. The gift of the Holy Spirit is patience, well I want it and I want it now, no. Patience is waiting for something under duress and the pain of not having it, that's patience. How can you develop that without time and duress. The more you think about it, just try to think of one virtue, love, kindness, faith, any virtue that you try to think of, that is not in some way, shape or form the result of overcoming some form of evil. To be good you must overcome evil. Because your tendency is to be evil.

1Cor 15:1  Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
v. 2  and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
v. 3  For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
v. 4  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures;


We have yet much to learn!
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mercy, peace and love
Kat