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Author Topic: Tempted.  (Read 3775 times)

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Rick

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Tempted.
« on: November 21, 2014, 12:02:54 AM »

Mat 4:1  Then the Spirit led Jesus into the desert. He was taken there to be tempted by the devil.

God cannot be tempted nor does God tempt anyone, furthermore Christ was completely human but did not possess a carnal mind, in other words Christ had the mind of God .

So how can it be possible that He was tempted ?  :-\
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Loc

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 12:26:57 AM »

Perhaps it's similar to God being wearied and cursed.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6033.msg48753.html#msg48753
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2014, 01:15:10 AM »

God did not tempt Jesus.  Satan did.  That is why the twisted serpent was created---to do those things that God Himself will not do.

Jesus is God.  But the Scriptures tell us that when He appeared as a human, that He emptied Himself of all His Godly powers and appeared in the form of a servant, as a human being.  As a human being, Jesus could be tempted, but since He had the Spirit of God without measure, He was able to resist all temptations and not sin.
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Kat

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 06:48:13 PM »


Hi Rick,

Because Jesus was born into a flesh and blood body, He was fully human, made lower than the angels (Heb 2:7, 9) but retained the mind of God (Col. 2:9). A main point of His being in the flesh was to experience the weaknesses of the flesh, as we do... He became weary (John 4:6), thirsty (John 19:28), and hungry, He experienced human emotions, He marvel (Matt. 8:10), wept (John 11:35). I think it's important to realize that Jesus was fully human like we are and He was not above suffering or trials because He was God.

Now in the temptations of Matt 4, those weaknesses of His flesh was tested by Satan, first with the strong hunger pain He must have been feeling. And then in verse 6 Satan tried to persuade Jesus to prove He was the Son of God by throwing Himself off the pinnacle of the temple, and bring about a miraculous intervention to be saved. And finally in verses 8-9 "the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me," was this an attempt to get Jesus to forsake the brutal crucifixion He knew was approaching, by offering Him the world before that? Of course it didn't work, Jesus knew the subtle way Satan worked and none of Satan temptation could turn our Savior from His destiny, thankfully.

Christ is now our Great High Priest, and because He lived a full human life subject to the weaknesses of the flesh that we all have, BUT overcame them all and never sinned. He was willing to come into the flesh and live as a perfect man (that only He/God could do) and top it off by suffering crucifixion to pay the penalty for the sins we cannot resist. Now He is able to totally sympathize with us, as He felt the pulls of the flesh too, BUT He could resist whatever He faced, because He was God and had the Spirit without measure (John 3:34).

John 16:33  I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."

Heb 2:17  Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
v. 18  For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Heb 4:14  Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
v. 15  For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Rick

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2014, 12:09:53 AM »

Hi Kat also everyone else too.

What I was thinking was, when Jesus was going through His earthly ministry He had  the mind of God, Jesus did not have a carnal mind as I /we do.

So when Iím tempted or anyone else is tempted it would not be the same for Jesus. Jesus is God and God cannot be tempted.

I agree that for the first time Jesus who is God had experience for the first time what it felt like to be hungry as we do or what pain felt like as we do.

The bible says God cannot be tempted and Jesus is God, I believe Jesus could not have know what its like to be human until He took on the form of flesh as we are. But can Jesus identified with everything that we flesh and blood human beings go through?

How about lust ? Was God tempted with lust but overcame it, was He tempted in the way I am tested with lust as a man who has a carnal mind ?

Iím not saying Jesus/ God does not love us, He die for us to prove His love for us, I understand that.

I am carnal and can be tempted but when Iím spiritual I would hope its different and I cannot be tempted by anything.  ::)
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2014, 01:18:39 PM »

Hi Kat also everyone else too.

What I was thinking was, when Jesus was going through His earthly ministry He had  the mind of God, Jesus did not have a carnal mind as I /we do.

So when Iím tempted or anyone else is tempted it would not be the same for Jesus. Jesus is God and God cannot be tempted.

I agree that for the first time Jesus who is God had experience for the first time what it felt like to be hungry as we do or what pain felt like as we do.

The bible says God cannot be tempted and Jesus is God, I believe Jesus could not have know what its like to be human until He took on the form of flesh as we are. But can Jesus identified with everything that we flesh and blood human beings go through?

How about lust ? Was God tempted with lust but overcame it, was He tempted in the way I am tested with lust as a man who has a carnal mind ?

Iím not saying Jesus/ God does not love us, He die for us to prove His love for us, I understand that.

I am carnal and can be tempted but when Iím spiritual I would hope its different and I cannot be tempted by anything.  ::)

Hi Rick, John put it very plainly and straight to the point and I think he has the whole of it. Kat covered a lot of the scriptures already too which fit very nicely with what John stated.

I Just wanted to add this verse of scripture because I believe its pertinent to this discussion too.

Its not possible to kill God since He has immortality but Christ died and was dead. Its not possible for God to be tempted, but, Christ emptied Himself of His divinity and took on the form of a man, the likeness of mankind, so that these things could be accomplished.

Php 2:5 For let this mind be in you, which is in Christ Jesus also,
Php 2:6 Who, being inherently in the form of God, deems it not pillaging to be equal with God,
Php 2:7 nevertheless empties Himself, taking the form of a slave, coming to be in the likeness of humanity,
Php 2:8 and, being found in fashion as a human, He humbles Himself, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
Php 2:9 Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with the name that is above every name,

Christ could not succumb to the temptations of the flesh as He did have the spirit without measure. God's grace, that is, divine influence upon His heart.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

God bless,
Alex

P.S. Ray once said, somewhere, in an audio or writting, that being tempted is not a sin. Wish I knew where that was because it might be relevant to this discussion.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 02:50:56 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2014, 10:21:17 PM »


Hi Rick,

Heb 4:15  For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

This verse plainly states that Jesus was tempted as we are, but just because He was not carnal - "enmity to God," does not mean therefore He cannot really relate to what we are going through. He was fully in this world, totally immersed in it, He had lots of firsthand experience with the carnal world, He saw it up close and personal everyday of His life on earth. No He was not carnal, but He had carnality rubbed in His face enough to be well acquainted with it.

James 1:13  If we are tempted by such trials, we must not say, "This temptation comes from God." For God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. (GNB)

Think of the meaning here, the mind of God cannot be swayed to do evil, even when Satan presented temptations to Christ. This should give us great confident to know that the perfect righteousness of God can never be influenced to do wrong/sin. The difference in the mind of God and the carnal mind is expressed in the next verses in James.

v. 14  But we are tempted when we are drawn away and trapped by our own evil desires.
v. 15  Then our evil desires conceive and give birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

We need to believe that Jesus is very much aware of what it is like for us and certainly does indeed help us in every way.

Heb 2:14  Inasmuch then as the children (believers) have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same...
Heb 2:17  Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
v. 18  For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Rick

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2014, 02:05:46 PM »

Guess one can become sidetracked every now and then. Yes, I do see how Christ can identify with our weakness.

I find myself getting sucked into this Iím responsible for my actions but then remembering Iím not responsible only accountable.

God is responsible for all things according to His council that brings about all things, one needs to stay focuses on the sovereignty of God to understand they cannot be responsible for anything in their life, only accountable are we.

I know God works all things according to His council for His pleasure and will for everyoneís life and knowing Jesus can identify with our weakness and can and will see us through our trials and tribulations makes a world of difference to the believer who has been given faith in our high priest Jesus.

I like to think of myself as being in a constant state of checkmate by God our creator which I believe everyone is, there is nothing in heaven or earth that has not been ordained by God including me a vessel being fashioned in the image of God like everyone else.

I have again finished reading the letter Ray had sent to Dr. James Kennedy, and cannot help to feel humble by its truths and the sovereignty of our God, Christ isnít a way of life for me the believer He is my life, everything depends on the council of God and nothing outside of the council of God could ever take place and so for this cause do I have complete confidence in God for my life as well as my salvation, praise be to God Who is most worthy of praise and honor.  :)
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Craig

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 02:25:13 PM »

If a post was moved or deleted for some reason a moderator will let you know by pm or in the thread itself.  If you were not notified then I would say there was a mistake on your ent.

Craig
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theophilus

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 02:52:23 AM »

So, this means that God didn't know what it was to be one of his own creations. He came to know through the experience of Christ. I always believed He knew EVERYTHING! So, I suppose God doesn't know what it is to be a dolphin or an elephant??? What happened to the ALL-KNOWING attribute?

Respectfully submitted.
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Rick

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 02:59:49 AM »

Hello Theophilus,

So when your tax bill is due, can you say to someone go down to the lake and the first fish you catch will have two coins in its mouth ?


Respectfully submitted.
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Kat

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 10:44:43 AM »


Hi theophilus,

Luke 2:52  And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Heb 5:8  though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
v. 9  And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
v. 10  For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
v. 11  For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
v. 12  saying: "I will declare Your name to My brethren; in the assembly I will sing praise to You."
v. 13  And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
v. 14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
v. 15  and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
v. 16  For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
v. 17  Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
v. 18  For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

Hope that is helpful in explaining what He accomplished by coming in the flesh.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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indianabob

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 08:58:43 PM »

Hi folks,
Based upon some of the statements in previous letters I have this understanding.
That God cannot know exactly what it is like to be us unless he lives exactly as we do or did. That God cannot know what it feels like to be tempted unless and until God became flesh and was himself tempted in like manner . I don't agree.

When a man makes a clock from scratch and knows how it is supposed to function we presume that the inventor knows how and why it functions as it does.

When God forms the body, the brain and the operating program of a human being then God knows exactly what feelings and what level of pain and fear or joy and any other emotion the human body and mind can experience. God is not limited to God's own personal experiences in order to empathize with our experiences. We could not have had any of our experiences if they were not already programmed into our menu of possible experiences or emotions.

God didn't purchase our functional system off of the shelf and then need to learn how it functions and how we are affected by it. God knows because he created us, every bit of us including our feelings.

If anyone wishes I would like to further explore this facet of the discussion.

Indiana Bob
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2014, 10:44:14 PM »

Hi folks,
Based upon some of the statements in previous letters I have this understanding.
That God cannot know exactly what it is like to be us unless he lives exactly as we do or did. That God cannot know what it feels like to be tempted unless and until God became flesh and was himself tempted in like manner . I don't agree.

When a man makes a clock from scratch and knows how it is supposed to function we presume that the inventor knows how and why it functions as it does.

When God forms the body, the brain and the operating program of a human being then God knows exactly what feelings and what level of pain and fear or joy and any other emotion the human body and mind can experience. God is not limited to God's own personal experiences in order to empathize with our experiences. We could not have had any of our experiences if they were not already programmed into our menu of possible experiences or emotions.

God didn't purchase our functional system off of the shelf and then need to learn how it functions and how we are affected by it. God knows because he created us, every bit of us including our feelings.

If anyone wishes I would like to further explore this facet of the discussion.

Indiana Bob

Bob,

I think you miss a major part of what Paul is saying:

Heb 2:17  Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18  For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

Its one thing to know what temptation is, its an entirely different thing to experience it as flesh and blood, and to not only experience it in this form (human), but to overcome it without ever sinning.

In being able to relate He can faithfully make our case before God because He experienced it too. He experienced what its like to have the body and all its pulls act upon Him. He experienced what its like to be frail: a body that gets sick, gets cold, gets hungry. He also experienced fear, joy, sadness, love, through the eyes of a human. Through the human body. That is a vastly different experience than experiencing fear, joy, sadness, anger, etc.. as God.

I don't think we are saying God doesn't know how we work or are affected but rather that through experiencing what He already knew puts Him far above any God--A place truly worthy to be called the Son of God, Son of Man, the one who FAITHFULLY (who can relate in every way to us) makes our case before God.

Heb 4:15  For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

God bless,
Alex
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indianabob

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2014, 02:14:29 AM »

Hi Alex, well said and helpful.
However, I think we are approaching the subject from different directions.
God is eternal or has no beginning or however we are supposed to understand that God is "uncreated".
God the creator is omniscient and does not NEED to experience life as a human in order to understand even the minutest detail of the human existence. God already knew all things about humans when God created Adam and Eve. God didn't learn more during Jesus earthly life.
Jesus the man on the other hand did have to learn from the things he suffered. The story of Jesus life and  suffering is for our learning and to convince us by a true story that God does truly understand. But it is our limitations that make the story necessary rather than God's lack of absolute, detailed grasp of every feeling a human can have.

That view in and of itself does not limit Jesus' appointed authority or power or the efficacy of his sacrifice.

Perhaps we could begin again with those thoughts in mind.

Thank you for your thoughs, Indiana Bob
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Kat

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 11:25:01 AM »


Hi Bob,

This is from the 2006 Mobile conference transcript 'THE FATHER'S WILL?' It should give you a little more about why Christ came into the flesh.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg27963.html#msg27963 ----

Phil. 2: 7-8 But He made Himself of no reputation,  and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made [emptied Himself of His glory and privileges] in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also has high exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name.

John 3:16  For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting (Eonian) life.

Why did God do that? Why did Christ volunteer to go to the cross? Well Iíve been told all my life that He died for my sins. But did He have to? Did He have to die for our sins? Is there no way to pardon sins, out of His love and mercy? Couldnít He say, 'okay you have sinned, but I pardon you.' After all what is grace.

Eph 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith.

Grace will save you, so why die? Did Christ have to die? Why did God want to die? Why would God want to become a man? When I say God Iím talking about Jehovah, Jesus Christ. Did the Father Ďmakeí His Son Jesus die? Did He Ďtakeí His Sonís life? NO!

John 10:17  For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it up again.
v. 18  No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father."

Jesus VOLUNTEERED HIS LIFE for us!! While we were yet sinners (Rom. 5:08). What the law couldnít do and we couldnít do, CHRIST DID (Rom. 8:3).

We must experience sin before we can be saved from it! How did Elohim come to a knowledge of ďgood and evil?Ē We arenít told.

Why did God want to become a man and die? Well there are a number of reasons. Jesus Christ is the First fruit, He is the Word, He is the Creator of all and so on. He made this human race and He gave them (all with the direction of the Father - Elohim) an experience of evil, which is not a nice thing. God did not say there is nothing wrong with evil, just sit back and enjoy it, He doesnít talk like that.

Eze 33:11  Say to them: As I live, says the Lord Jehovah, I have no delight in the death of the wicked,

God made us, He put us through it, but we will never in all eternity, be able to have a one-upmanship over God, by saying you donít know what itís like. Itís already decided. First of all, God gave up His Son, and for any of you that are parents, it is harder to give up a son than it is to give up yourself.

Now Christ is the actual Creator, He reduced Himself down to the very humans He made, to be just like them. Except He had the Spirit of God. So He came down to show us how to live as a human being, under all the duress, stress, and mess and He did it humbly and perfectly.

So He set us an example and He could have stopped there. He could say I went through hunger, they tried to throw me off cliffs, they slapped Me, they mocked Me. They put spears in My side and He could have zapped them in a second. He let them do that for 33 years and never fought back, and never had a evil thought against them. 

He showed you how to live and He could have quit. But after He did all that, He said now Iím going to die for you, because I love you. Think about it, He didnít have to die, nobody took His life. He said I lay down My life and ďno one takes it from Me,Ē (John 10:18). He died to prove to us that He loves us. He didnít have to, He just did it, so we would know that He loves us. We canít say, but our Creator had it made in the shade, no. He came down and was under the same temptations, under the same rules and regulations and then He went to the cross and died, voluntarily. He says in effect, if that doesnít show that I love you, I donít know what else I can do.

So thatís what He did and thatís why He died, because He loved us and He wanted to prove it. So He died for our sins. God accepted that for a sacrifice, but it was a voluntary sacrifice. It wouldnít have needed to be done, they did it that way, but it didnít need to be done that way.

They (Israelites) were forgiven for a whole year, just by the sprinkling of a goatís blood, in the Holy place on the Day of Pentecost. But Christ wanted to prove to the human race that He was every bit as good of a man, as any other man was. He doesnít sit in His ivory tower telling us how great He is. He did it as a man. God became a man and died, because He loves His creation and He wanted us to know He loves us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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theophilus

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2014, 02:44:13 PM »

Hello Theophilus,

So when your tax bill is due, can you say to someone go down to the lake and the first fish you catch will have two coins in its mouth ?



Respectfully submitted.

What's with the sarcasm??? I wrote "respectfully submitted" because I didn't want to come across as if I was mocking the subject. But to answer your question, YES! I CAN say to someone 'go down to the lake and the first fish you catch will have two coins in its mouth'! I have the ABILITY to make such a statement. Maybe you meant if I could produce my tax liability via a fish swimming in a lake. I don't see your point with such a question however.
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-- Ray Smith

theophilus

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2014, 03:19:58 PM »

Hello Kat! :)

I share indianabob's position that the Father knows ALL, even what it is to be human WITHOUT having to become one. I agree with you that Jesus, the Son of God, laid down his life out of love for us. But He didn't do it ONLY to prove to us that He loves us. He had another reason that is contemplated in the Law. Don't you think that His very act of creating us demonstrates His love for us?

In a future post, I will finish the point I'm trying to make. I must go to bed now. I worked all night having slept only four hours the previous day. I am exhausted!
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-- Ray Smith

Rick

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2014, 07:45:33 AM »

Hello Theophilus,

So when your tax bill is due, can you say to someone go down to the lake and the first fish you catch will have two coins in its mouth ?



Respectfully submitted.

What's with the sarcasm??? I wrote "respectfully submitted" because I didn't want to come across as if I was mocking the subject.
Hello Theophilus,


I used respectfully submitted as you had because of my statement about Christ. I do apologize   for having offended you by its use. It was not my intention.

I'll think twice before plagiarizing again. God bless. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 04:14:43 PM by Rick »
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theophilus

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Re: Tempted.
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2014, 09:36:23 AM »

Hello Theophilus,

So when your tax bill is due, can you say to someone go down to the lake and the first fish you catch will have two coins in its mouth ?



Respectfully submitted.

What's with the sarcasm??? I wrote "respectfully submitted" because I didn't want to come across as if I was mocking the subject.
Hello Theophilus,


I used respectfully submitted as you had because of my statement about Christ. I do apologize   for having offended you by its use. It was not my intention.

I think twice before plagiarizing again. God bless. 


No brother, I wasn't offended. Your statement sounded a bit sarcastic, so I was at a loss about what you meant. :)  God bless you too!
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-- Ray Smith
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