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John or the dragon? Upon the sand or upon the ground?

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Kat:


--- Quote from: Mariano on December 02, 2014, 04:04:56 PM ---Paul said to the Thessalonians: "Examine everything; cling to what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Now, how could anyone cling to what is good out of that "everything" without doing the examination thereof?
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I totally agree with this.


--- Quote ---That's why I have submitted scriptural facts for everyone to check out and left it there.
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You started a thread, with the title that was a question if something that Ray has taught on was right or not, now that is going quite a bit further than just "submitted scriptural facts."

People have their own interpretation of the Scripture and the forum rules it seems.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: Mariano on December 02, 2014, 03:11:35 PM ---Alex,

I think you confussed a little bit what I say in my original post regarding Matthew 7:26 and Luke 6:49, which are parallel passages. I'll say it here another way for clarification:

Both passages have the Greek word ποταμός (potamós), which principal and leading meaning is "river" (hence the name of the animal called in Greek "hypopotamos", which mean "horse of river" or "river horse").

So, most assuredly, Jesus had in mind the flood or the stream of a river, not of the sea. Now, in the book of Revelation symbols are quite specific and, in fact, both in the trumpets series and the vials series you have the second of both addressed to the sea and the third thereof addressed to the rivers and the fountains of waters. Remember what Paul said to Timothy and what Ray himself so many times stressed: "Hold fast the pattern of sound words (...)" (2 Timothy 1:13).

What I pointed out in my original post (though maybe not in the clearest manner) is that Jesus speaks of sand (ἄμμος) in Matthew 7:26 and of the ground or soil (γῆ) in Luke 6:49.

Now, regarding the symbol spoken of by John in the book of Revelation, it is not just "the sand" (as in Matthew 7:26) but rather "the sand of the seashore", which has another occurrence in the book, specifically in chapter 20, verse 8:

And [Satan] shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. (KJV)

So here John uses "the sand of the sea" as a symbol of a unnumerable multitude. And guess what happens when you search for every occurrence of the word "sand" both in the OT and the NT... It is almost always connected to the descendance of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob, which is spoken of by God as going to be "as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore" (see Genesis 22:17 and other passages).

I hope I have been clearer now regarding my original post.

God bless.

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Hi Mariano,

I am not confused. You stated in your original post:

"Also, in Jesus parable of the two house builders, we have “sand” mentioned in Matthew 7:26 and “earth”/“arable land”/”ground” (γῆ) in Luke 6:49. Furthermore, in both cases the faulty house is built nearby the river (ποταμός) and not the sea…"

I guess I just don't understand why the word "patmos" has to be interpreted as meaning the houses are near a river? Why so quick to dismiss the sand being sand from a beach, implying that this house could be near the sea? Can Oceans and rivers be near one another? Are they related in anyway?

I also don't understand why you dismiss JFK's very valid observation. John is on the sand, looking back, and he see's this beast rising out of the sea. Where does the beast go as he rises out of the sea? Onto the sand! That's how you come out of the sea, from the water onto the shore--the sand. Maybe I'm just not sure what you are trying to say through this whole discussion here.

Alex

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