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Author Topic: Adversary  (Read 2027 times)

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Ian 155

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Adversary
« on: December 15, 2014, 05:06:13 AM »

I found this most interesting  not sure if Ray has discussed this....

This is a general name applied to all persons, in common, who have a controversy, or are at variance with each other. Thus the Lord saith to Israel, "I will be an adversary to thine adversaries." (Exo_23:22) And the prophet describes the Lord as an adversary to his people, in the day of his displeasure. "He hath bent his bow (saith he) as an enemy; he stood with his right hand as an adversary." (Lam_2:4) And the Lord Jesus describes God the Father, as a law adversary, when he saith, (Mat_5:25) "Agree with thine adversary quickly, whilst thou art in the way with him." The Scriptures represent also Satan, as an adversary to Christ and his church. Thus Jesus, by the spirit of prophecy, saith, "Who is mine adversary? let him come near to me." (Isa_50:8 ) And Zechariah (Zec_3:1 ) represents Satan as "an adversary standing at Joshuaís right hand, to resist him." And the apostle Peter calls the devil an adversary going about to devour; and chargeth the church to resist him steadfast in faith. (1Pe_5:8 ) From these different views of the word, it will be very easy to learn, that the name of adversary is indiscriminately given to all persons who are in a state of controversy with each other, whether good or evil.


Quoted from "Hawker" dictionary
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 05:27:43 AM by Ian 155 »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 03:07:01 PM »

Why should I care what Mr. Hawker says in his dictionary?
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Gina

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2014, 05:44:00 PM »

Quote
From these different views of the word, it will be very easy to learn, that the name of adversary is indiscriminately given to all persons who are in a state of controversy with each other, whether good or evil.

Hi, Ian

It is as if to say that the controversial things that Jesus did before, during and after His earthly ministry, would cause some to indiscriminately classify Him as Satan the liar and stealer of joy. 

The Pharisees accused Jesus of doing works through the help of Beelzebub, which is blasphemy -- for which people who commit that sin will not receive forgiveness in this age or in the age to come.  I could pull more than a few emails where Ray warned some of his detractors that they were bordering on blasphemy -- by calling that which is good (or the works of God) evil, if you really want to see them.

But if you want my honest opinion, I don't see the fruitfulness in discussing it further.  What more can be said that hasn't already been said?
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2014, 08:44:38 PM »

I don't see anything particularly wrong about his 'definition', but that doesn't mean it doesn't open the door to
'theologizing'.   "Adversary" is an English word that has a meaning (and shades of meaning) and that's what he seems to be bringing out.  It's only when religion and theology intrudes that words loose their meaning.

"From these different views of the word, it will be very easy to learn, that the name of adversary is indiscriminately given to all persons who are in a state of controversy with each other, whether good or evil."  True enough without the bolds and underscores.

 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Ian 155

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2014, 02:47:14 AM »

Quote
From these different views of the word, it will be very easy to learn, that the name of adversary is indiscriminately given to all persons who are in a state of controversy with each other, whether good or evil.

Hi, Ian

It is as if to say that the controversial things that Jesus did before, during and after His earthly ministry, would cause some to indiscriminately classify Him as Satan the liar and stealer of joy. 

The Pharisees accused Jesus of doing works through the help of Beelzebub, which is blasphemy -- for which people who commit that sin will not receive forgiveness in this age or in the age to come.  I could pull more than a few emails where Ray warned some of his detractors that they were bordering on blasphemy -- by calling that which is good (or the works of God) evil, if you really want to see them.

But if you want my honest opinion, I don't see the fruitfulness in discussing it further.  What more can be said that hasn't already been said?

Hey Gina like i said not sure if this has been discussed and no I don't believe Matt 5v25;26 is saying that Jesus is as Satan - when you line up the rest of the quoted verses - this is an interesting verse

I get the impression that the accuser/adversary/plaintiff is used to highlight a point, pplace in our walk that causes consternation, at the threat of "Jail " which then causes one to change,that is, at the threat of having facing the Judge.

his translation/understanding does shed new light on many other verses such as  2 cor v6  and Eph 4v1 and 3v1  I refer to agreement principles and "doing time"

Dave ... Underscores a bolds were points of discussion, most teaching is false and are "averse" to what the Word's is."Plaintiff" is used in the concordant, to me that is an accuser?


JFK.... not sure if i asked "what you actually care about",
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 03:27:26 AM by Ian 155 »
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Rick

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2014, 07:07:18 PM »

Quote
From these different views of the word, it will be very easy to learn, that the name of adversary is indiscriminately given to all persons who are in a state of controversy with each other, whether good or evil.

Hi, Ian

It is as if to say that the controversial things that Jesus did before, during and after His earthly ministry, would cause some to indiscriminately classify Him as Satan the liar and stealer of joy. 

The Pharisees accused Jesus of doing works through the help of Beelzebub, which is blasphemy -- for which people who commit that sin will not receive forgiveness in this age or in the age to come.  I could pull more than a few emails where Ray warned some of his detractors that they were bordering on blasphemy -- by calling that which is good (or the works of God) evil, if you really want to see them.

But if you want my honest opinion, I don't see the fruitfulness in discussing it further.  What more can be said that hasn't already been said?


JFK.... not sure if i asked "what you actually care about",
Hello Ian,

Concerning J from K, as much as I can tell,  he cares about the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thatís a great attribute to this website you know.  ;)
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To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2014, 12:42:37 PM »

Quote
Concerning J from K, as much as I can tell,  he cares about the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thatís a great attribute to this website you know.  ;)

Agree
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Farlsborough

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2014, 08:30:11 AM »

Come on guys, I think you're being a little unfair on Ian! In the talks I have heard Ray regularly used external sources and quotations to explore an issue or explain a point, whether on free will, space and creation etc...

None of you presumably turned round to him and said "why should I care what XYZ says?" It's the nature of discussion, and surely if you're  not interested, you can just not participate? If we're not going to use this forum to explore avenues of inquiry we started down with Ray's teaching (which may sometimes involve insights from other sources), what's the point?!  :-\
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Rick

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2014, 10:28:33 AM »

Come on guys, I think you're being a little unfair on Ian!

Hello Farlsborough,

My statement referred only to the question Ian ask J from K which was ( what you actually care about ) I made no reference about what XYZ said. Thatís a different subject altogether.

Iím confused as to why you think Iím being unfair to Ian.

Ray also said ( what virtue do you have that did not require overcoming some form of evil ?

Patience is a virtue but one cannot learn patience lying on a beach in the Bahamas drinking pina coladaís on a sunny day.
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To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

lderr

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 11:38:47 AM »

Who is this XYZ, and where can I get his books?  He sounds interesting! ;D
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Ian 155

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Re: Adversary
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2014, 02:16:24 AM »


[/quote]
Hello Ian,

Concerning J from K, as much as I can tell,  he cares about the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thatís a great attribute to this website you know.  ;)
[/quote]

Agreed Rick,however on this occasion, John was being "his facetious self"... again  ;)
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