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Author Topic: Make our calling sure  (Read 1331 times)

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Mahonse

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Make our calling sure
« on: December 18, 2014, 07:15:18 AM »

One thing that has stood out recently when reading Ray's material was the idea that we can choose to be one of God' elect (relatively, if God chooses us first). In his third paper in the LOF series, he says:

Only a relative few are participating in this judgement by fire, and they are all volunteers!

This also brings to mind various scriptures from the epistles that also see things from our own perspective:

Therefore my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 2 Peter 1:10

Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Phillipians 2:12

I recall hearing in one Ray's talks that we will never know that we have made it until we are resurrected; that we must remain humble and endure til the end and not become complacent 'lest I become a castaway' (1 Cor. 9:37).

Thoughts?

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Farlsborough

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Re: Make our calling sure
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 08:48:09 AM »

One of the (many) insights and revelations I have found in Ray's teaching is this: that it will feel like us doing the work, doing the choosing and so on... but we know it isn't. As he says, it feels like we have freewill. That's why people don't even question it - it seems obvious to them, and the scripture that proves otherwise seems embarrassing and foolish, and they ignore it.

But that doesn't mean we sit on our hands, waiting for a giant hand to swoop down and pull our limbs into action like puppets. Do your best - good works, self-restraint, the lot - but have peace about it, knowing that when you succeed it is God working in you, and likewise when you fail you can relax in the knowledge that God will bring you to perfection. The results are simply a marker of what He has achieved in you so far.

Or something like that  ;)

Interestingly, I read an interview with a publically and proudly atheist comedian recently who bizarrely echoed some of these truths - that you cannot take credit for your achievements, and equally when you fail it is a result of the place you have been brought to by influences out of your control. Generally the chap is a fool but he seemed to have glimpsed a glimmer of truth there...!
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Kat

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Re: Make our calling sure
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 12:21:40 PM »


Hi Mahonse,

Yes that is how I see it too. God must "draws us" (John 6:44) first, I believe that's what gives us a volunteering heart. As you mentioned, from our prospective all we can see/recon is that we are making the decision (that's why it's so easy to believe in free will), but we know that there are always causes that lead to every decision. God gives us a volunteering heart to follow and obey Him and that shows we are not forced, God creates circumstances that we willingly and readily repent and believe. Here is an email that helps explain this.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,567.0.html -----

Like scripture says, God wills everyone to be saved. But does God's will always happen? True, God in His great mercy create situations and circumstances where He draws us, but ultimately w e can choose whether we want to go to God when He draws us to Christ. It's just that some people die before they make the decision. It's His Spirit alone that can convince us of the truth, no human argument whatsoever. It's through Christ alone we can be with God, right?
If I misinterpret your website, please forgive me.
In Love,
Riaan
 
Dear Riaan:
We cannot "make the decision" as you state unless God gives us that ability. Faith to believe is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8).  Repentance is a gift from God (Rom. 2:4).  None CAN come to Christ unless God draws (Gk: 'drags') them (John 6:44).  We do NOT "choose Christ," but rather Christ CHOOSES US (John 15:16).  ALL IS OF GOD, Romans 11:32, etc., etc., etc.
 
No one dies before they "have a CHANCE" to follow Christ. Salvation is not a matter of "chance."  This is not the only day of salvation.
 
Be sure you read all of my series on the "Free Will Myth."
God be with you,
Ray
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So God leads us to volunteer, but that is just the beginning, He also creates in us a strong desire the serve and obey. Now we are judging ourselves and learning what is truth and how to live by it, which can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit indwelling. Here is another excerpt where Ray discussed this.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm -------------------------------------

"For if we would judge ourselves [now] we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned [later] with the world [later in the Great White Throne Judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).
 
"For the TIME IS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the House of God..." (I Pet. 4:17).

"...for the time is at hand" (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10).

There can be no argument against the fact that God's Elect are to "bow their knee" NOW in this Church age or we will find ourselves in the next age when, "Because He has appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness..." Acts 17:31). During our calling, we stand before the Judgment of Jesus and give an account daily of the works done in our flesh. How do we actually do this? Paul instructs us: "For if we would judge ourselves..." (I Cor. 15:11:31). This is how we are to be judged.

Notice how Paul's statement is in perfect agreement with that of Jesus: "And if your right eye offend you, [you] pluck it out... And if your right hand offend you, [you] cut it off..." (Matt. 5:29-30).

Isn't that amazing? That's how Jesus Judges US. He helps us judge OURSELVES! It is voluntary. But if we do not volunteer to judge ourselves, guess what? "...for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish [voluntarily] and not that your whole body should be cast [Gk: ballo-'throw violently or intensely' against your will] into Gehenna [fire]" (Ver. 30)

"For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged... we should not be condemned with the world" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

In God's due time, all humanity will voluntarily desire with their whole heart to be a member of the Family of God. No one will be forced in or out of God's Family.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Gina

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Re: Make our calling sure
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 12:29:24 PM »

Hi, Mahonse

I agree the elect volunteer. 

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing...

John 4:34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

In order to volunteer, there has to be a cause behind it -- cause and effect. 

I imagine the elect know what the many don't:  if that proverbial fire gets hot enough, nobody will have to force you to move, you will gladly volunteer. 

And you will despise the shaming tactics of the world and satan.  (Nobody'll like you if you're a holly roller....    Who are you to tell me what to do, you're just a sinner like me.  You could be killed....)

It's a HUGE task and the elect cannot be so into the world that if the world (mother, father, brother, sister, child, friend), shamed them, that their knees would buckle.

The love of the world is enmity with God.  To the elect, it's not worth it to them.  But if they preferred the love of the world, more than the things of God, as many of us do, they would become a castaway.

The elect volunteer because they're not intimidated by of all that.  Something tells me they have bigger fish to fry. 
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Mahonse

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Re: Make our calling sure
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 04:56:07 PM »

But that doesn't mean we sit on our hands, waiting for a giant hand to swoop down and pull our limbs into action like puppets.

That may not be far from the truth actually.

I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw [you throw using your hand, [obviously this is metaphorically speaking nonetheless]] you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 12:5

The Lord will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.Hebrews 10:30-31

Now the hand of the Lord is against you. Acts 13:11

Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go. John 21:18


Isn't that amazing? That's how Jesus Judges US. He helps us judge OURSELVES! It is voluntary. But if we do not volunteer to judge ourselves, guess what? "...for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish [voluntarily] and not that your whole body should be cast [Gk: ballo-'throw violently or intensely' against your will] into Gehenna [fire]" (Ver. 30)


Too right Kat.

One could argue that God makes us volunteer when both judging his household and when judging the world- and that that he uses the same means, that of the proverbial fire. ('For God is a consuming fire', Hebrews 12:29, 'For God does not show partiality', Romans 2:11, 'So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality', Acts 10:34. The only difference is the amount of force (according to the man's work: 'And they were judged, each one according to his works' Rev. 20:13, 'and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is, 1 Cor. 3:13) he uses for us to volunteer; those who are stone-hearted will obviously need more force. And the proof that they are stone-hearted: 'And He was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries [all of which are works]. Mark 7:20-21.


I imagine the elect know what the many don't:  if that proverbial fire gets hot enough, nobody will have to force you to move, you will gladly volunteer. 


You've hit the nail on the head Gina.


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