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Resurrection of the dead in Matthew 27?
Dave in Tenn:
Ray taught that, properly translated, Rev. 13:8 is talking about the names being written in the Book of the Life of the Life being written there from the foundation of the world--not that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8 And all those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name is not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
See Kat's post above for a second witness.
When was the Lamb slain?
Rom_5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time came, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 in order that he might redeem those under the law, in order that we might receive the adoption.
Jesus the Lamb came, lived, died and was raised from the dead.
Now if you see spiritual significance in the fact that the men travelling with Paul 'raised him from the ground' at his experience with the Lord on the road to Damascus as being Resurrection, then so be it. Paul did not, as Alex posted scripture which shows he taught a future resurrection. In the fullness of time? In due time?
That isn't to say that he didn't teach about 'death' and 'Resurrection' in this life, in the now. He was the one who said "I die daily" and "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live..." and many other passages that put a future promise into 'faith' for today, after all.
A lot of people in my life have hit with me that bible saying "Lean not to your own understanding". INVARIABLY, what they MEANT is, either "don't think" or "LEAN UNTO MINE." Pretty slick, huh? And just what do they thing THEY are doing?
Well, no. Not gonna do it.
Ian 155:
Defending a lie can be harder than telling the truth
your quotes are in black
"David was never begotten a new but rather was of the earth as a natural man. He was not born of spirit so how could his words be spirit (Christ said His words are spirit but Christ was conceived by the spirit)"
Does not all come out of God?While you and I make Judgement on that which comes from God are you and I, yet carnal? You and I Mock God By insinuating our understanding is correct, I will ask you again, Does David Represent God In This scripture you quote as Proof David was yet carnal ?
Were not Davids words inspired by God ? how can you dare say davids words are not spirit ?
The Tree of Knowledge has a 2 fold message most get the 2nd message with ease (evil) the first message (good) is attainable.... if you ask.
Does Good represent Spirit (life) ? does Evil represent Carnal ? (DEATH)
As for "There be some STANDING H-E-R-E which shall not taste of death, TILL [till mean 'until,' and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH] they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28). And just when DID they see this? Answer--next verse:
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Where they really, actually, literally, in the flesh "talking with Jesus?" No. Read verse 9:
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It was all a "VISION." It happened in their minds, not unlike a dream--it was only a VISION, but in that vision, they really did see Jesus as He will appear "IN HIS KINGDOM).
Yes we all know this was a vision but how do you get to where ch 17 v1 , is the answer/explanation to ch 16 v27,28 ?
Do you know what the "vision" meant and why God would have it in his word ?Why would they automatically perceive the men in the vision to be these 2 specific prophets ?when they had never laid eyes on them ?
and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH]
Really?
do you have a chapter and verse on this interpretation ?
Your cryptic nature of posting leads me to be cautious of what you say because it is not plain what your intentions are.
well here is another "cryptic" message - be cautious.
Being reborn/resurrected, is actually climbing back up into a literal womb.
You and your colleagues are looking for a literal resurrection of the literal dead - good luck...
perhaps Jesus knew something when he said "Let the dead bury the dead"
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Kat on December 27, 2014, 06:48:06 PM ---
Ian, I will give you an answer as I see it.
As far as Job goes he knew he would be dead in the grave and "wait," till he was raised/changed to a new body.
Job 14:14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes.
Acts 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. (NASB)
Rev 1:18 and the Living One: and I became dead, and lo! living am I for the eons of the eons. (Amen!) And I have the keys of death and of the unseen."
With this verse in Revelation, yes of course Christ has the keys to death and the grave, He was able to raise people during His earthly ministry as He so desired and return them to a physical life and He will call all from their grave in the resurrection of the dead.
John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
v. 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
In 1 Cor. 15 Paul was speaking to those that did not believe in the resurrection at all and if you will look a little further down in that same chapter you can see where Paul was going with that... the resurrection at His return!
1Co 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
Matt 16:28 “Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
In this verse in Matt 16 Christ is speaking to His disciples, and Judas would have been there as well, the phrase "shall not taste of death" could very well have been speaking of the second death and could have applied to Judas, he was the only disciple that died before Christ was crucified and raised and was not able to receive the Holy Spirit and repent.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This certainly applies to the fact that God's plan was established before the world was created.
1Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him. (RSV)
Also the elect were chosen from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Anyway that is the answer I see to all the verses you have listed.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Well thanks for the honesty in saying "thats the way you understand it" I could write a book Kat but then it would be teaching .... ;)
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on December 27, 2014, 07:09:39 PM ---Ray taught that, properly translated, Rev. 13:8 is talking about the names being written in the Book of the Life of the Life being written there from the foundation of the world--not that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8 And all those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name is not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
See Kat's post above for a second witness.
When was the Lamb slain?
Rom_5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time came, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 in order that he might redeem those under the law, in order that we might receive the adoption.
Jesus the Lamb came, lived, died and was raised from the dead.
Now if you see spiritual significance in the fact that the men travelling with Paul 'raised him from the ground' at his experience with the Lord on the road to Damascus as being Resurrection, then so be it. Paul did not, as Alex posted scripture which shows he taught a future resurrection. In the fullness of time? In due time?
That isn't to say that he didn't teach about 'death' and 'Resurrection' in this life, in the now. He was the one who said "I die daily" and "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live..." and many other passages that put a future promise into 'faith' for today, after all.
A lot of people in my life have hit with me that bible saying "Lean not to your own understanding". INVARIABLY, what they MEANT is, either "don't think" or "LEAN UNTO MINE." Pretty slick, huh? And just what do they thing THEY are doing?
Well, no. Not gonna do it.
--- End quote ---
And here is stupid me thinking everything was in place from THE FOUNDATION of the earth - even the "tweaks" in our character flaws.
Perhaps we should say "In the Beginning the WORD WAS NOT" and that uncle Dave has a better angle ? By "stringing" multiple interpretations together.
Gina:
--- Quote ---And here is stupid me thinking everything was in place from THE FOUNDATION of the earth - even the "tweaks" in our character flaws.
Perhaps we should say "In the Beginning the WORD WAS NOT" and that uncle Dave has a better angle ? By "stringing" multiple interpretations together.
--- End quote ---
Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
Our character flaws manifest when God decides they're made manifest.
Abraham was made a father of many, when he had as yet not one child.
Romans 4:17 As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
It's very simple, Ian. But it takes the Spirit of God operating in us to understand these things. All in due time of course.
God said,
Lean not on your son's stash,
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will direct your path. ;)
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