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[Mike Gagne]

Great language lesson, John.  Doesn't make you or I a Greek expert though.  I have the Rotherham's Bible and guess what!  It is as you stated in Matthew 27.  I never saw it till now! Thanks for the pro tip.  Sincerely, that is an interesting fact. But it is still a quibble, IMHO.  And curiously still, it doesn't seem to mesh with the other accounts of his death.  Maybe he was stabbed twice--once to kill him, and again to prove he was dead when they broke the legs of the others!..  Otherwise, why the specific reference to it in the other gospels (especially John's account) after the fact? Because John said "we are witnesses to his death"... Being stabbed, shouting out, and closing your eyes is one thing... Being stabbed again through the heart under the ribs and being motionless is definitive proof one is DEAD.  This proof of death--and resurrection, as John directly stated, was the very purpose of his gospel.  My .02 anyway.

So, touche, John. You may have baited me into that, but thanks anyway--I learned a factoid.  But again, the specific moment of his death, I think, is still a quibble.

Anyway, John, many have (and I certainly otherwise would) find you quite offensive.  You call me "friend" but you speak to me like a fool.  But like I said in my introduction earlier, I may be a new member, but I'm not 'new'. I have an advantage over you: I've been a here a good while "lurking", and I know you pretty well; you don't know me.  I expect rudeness.  I take no offense, though. It's just how God made you. 

And as for your disciple, Alex, I know you too.    You're already tired of "going round in circles" with this Lurquer guy--I already have your head spinning in just one thread?  Man up brother.  You ain't seen nothing yet.

                                     
Good post Michael.  I also read a lot here and I see that there is not a lot of building one another up, but there is some tearing down from some who will even use scripture to bang you around with lol , wow it's like if your not educated you could be in for a lashing! Anyhow it is good to see someone else sees it...sorry I dont know how to insert quotes properly! 😂 (Mike I put the quote you posted from Lurquer in a quote box for you- Kat)

[rick]

 Why do most decent interesting threads on this forum always turn negative?

                                        Ray gives a great answer,

This book was written so that nobody could understand it, until God picks somebody out and says I want you to understand this book and I’ll show you how to understand it. That’s the only way. He’s got to pick you out and open up your mind or you will never understand this book.  This book is written in all kinds of symbolism, figurative language, types, figures, images, examples, analogies, parables, metaphors and people think all those things are literal. That is confusion. That’s why the church is confused. That’s why there are supposedly 3000 Christian denominations in the world, because they don’t understand any of this stuff.


Seems to me this is just another I know more than you thread. 

[Rene]

I don't disagree that Christ has power but while Christ was in the form of a man and emptied of His divinity, that power came from His Father. He plainly states that of Himself He can do nothing as John re-iterated. "Nothing" is a pretty final. I'm trying to see a way around it but I just can't... I don't know... I'll pray about it some more. Thanks for the engaging discussion.

Christ was emptied of some of His prior "glory".  Does that mean He was emptied of His "divinity"?  Here is a comment Ray made at the "Is Jesus God" bible study in March of 2011:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12896.0.html

John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, BUT HE (what?)… that came down from heaven,

"He that came down He ascended up to heaven. He was not dead yet, this was BEFORE the resurrection! This was in His ministry. So here is a Scripture that says , He went to heaven before He died or His resurrection. He came down from heaven and He said the same one that came down, that’s the One that ascended up! Most people read over that, but it is there, it does say it."

"See I don’t think He emptied Himself of everything that was, all knowledge everything. I don’t think so. [Comment: Maybe He emptied Himself of something.] Yes He did, of course He did. He emptied Himself of some prior glory that He had."


Just some food for thought.  Now, with that being said, let's move on before this topic gets further out of hand.