> General Discussions
Kingdom of God - of the heavens
lurquer:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on February 06, 2015, 05:31:02 PM ---Sounds boring.
I guess the women will wear long dresses to their ankles, which will be covered in modest black socks. Their long hair will be tied up in a knot and covered by a head scarf. No bikini. The women will clean house and churn butter all day.
The men will be farmers spreading manure over the fields.
I guess they will attend some type of religious service daily to pray to the Lord, read the good book, and keep their minds off sex.
No need for roads. Why travel? A veritable local utopia.
No electricity, no T.V., no radio. no internet. No joking or laughter permitted. Living religiously is serious business after all.
Sounds like a Christian North Korea.
Please Jesus, if that is what you have planned for the world, send me to hell with some loose women, and no Christians or any kind of religious people allowed.
--- End quote ---
I can appreciate sarcasm. I understand your point too. But, I don't think anyone here really believes any of what you're saying will pertain to the Kingdom Age. Like Kat, I see no reason why human technology must be done away with, on the contrary, I see it growing and advancing exponentially in the Kingdom...
However, some of what you imply (in sarcasm?) seems kind of oddly backwards to me. Why your strong focus on sexuality? Of course, mortals will still be living, being married and procreating during that time, so it will still be going on, but really, do I still have to be accosted by thongs when I'm at the beach with my wife and daughters? Have you been to the beach lately, John? Or is your impression of "bikinis" still the Mousketeer Annette Funicello Beach Blanket Bingo sort of thing.. Cuz I'm here to tell you, things have really changed in that regard.
And I don't know about you brother, but when most of us get a little bit more mature--even in this world--it becomes not so much of a chore to "keep our minds off of sex" all the time. I tend to think that in the world to come, it will be a bit easier even (especially if we're all not constantly afflicted with rote pornography--in all of it's subtle, and not-so-subtle forms).
I for one don't want to be "spreading manure on fields" all day either (and I enjoy my gardens and mini-farm immensely)...I think the old adage, 'work smarter, not harder' will apply in that Future Day as well, and much more! Likewise, I don't want to see women "churning butter and cleaning houses" all day...unless they're doing it in a summer dress and high heels of course ;) . But skip the gratuitous nudity, please. I've had enough of that offense, and frankly, some of the bodies on display at said beaches NEED to be covered.
That being said, is it commonly accepted among all here that the Kingdom of God begins on the earth and ultimately spreads to all of the universe (since "of the increase of His kingdom will be no end")?
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Neo on February 08, 2015, 11:46:24 AM ---
I can appreciate sarcasm. I understand your point too. But, I don't think anyone here really believes any of what you're saying will pertain to the Kingdom Age. Like Kat, I see no reason why human technology must be done away with, on the contrary, I see it growing and advancing exponentially in the Kingdom...
However, some of what you imply (in sarcasm?) seems kind of oddly backwards to me. Why your strong focus on sexuality? Of course, mortals will still be living, being married and procreating during that time, so it will still be going on, but really, do I still have to be accosted by thongs when I'm at the beach with my wife and daughters? Have you been to the beach lately, John? Or is your impression of "bikinis" still the Mousketeer Annette Funicello Beach Blanket Bingo sort of thing.. Cuz I'm here to tell you, things have really changed in that regard.
And I don't know about you brother, but when most of us get a little bit more mature--even in this world--it becomes not so much of a chore to "keep our minds off of sex" all the time. I tend to think that in the world to come, it will be a bit easier even (especially if we're all not constantly afflicted with rote pornography--in all of it's subtle, and not-so-subtle forms).
I for one don't want to be "spreading manure on fields" all day either (and I enjoy my gardens and mini-farm immensely)...I think the old adage, 'work smarter, not harder' will apply in that Future Day as well, and much more! Likewise, I don't want to see women "churning butter and cleaning houses" all day...unless they're doing it in a summer dress and high heels of course ;) . But skip the gratuitous nudity, please. I've had enough of that offense, and frankly, some of the bodies on display at said beaches NEED to be covered.
That being said, is it commonly accepted among all here that the Kingdom of God begins on the earth and ultimately spreads to all of the universe (since "of the increase of His kingdom will be no end")?
--- End quote ---
Neo, there is no indication in the next age that there will be any procreating.
Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."
Mark 12:25 "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."
Notice it is "IN THE RESSURECTION" that there is no marriage or giving in marriage but being like the angels. All humanity will partake in the resurrection. It doesn't sound to me like there will be any physical baby making going on in the next age even for those who are RESSURECTED into physical bodies.
There is also no indication of anything as literal as technology being needed. We are talking about a time where paul said, no eye has seen nor ear has heard.
1 Cor 2:8 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."
Isaiah 64:4 "For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him."
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
I think too many people are trying to understand what comes beyond this age when there is very little about the next age we are told. Ray mentioned a few of those things such as the increase of His government having no end that we as individuals will continue to increase and grow as well but I don't know how some of you are going into detail about technology, roads, bridges, beaches, what the first act of business will be, etc... We just don't know and there is an enormous amount of speculation going on that I don't even think begins to hit the nail on the head.
We should stop trying to frame the coming kingdom of God through the eyes of man. We are trying to understand this age through what we know about the current age of man that we know will be done away with.
Remember...
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: FOR THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY.
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.
Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, BEHOLD, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."
2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Isaiah 65:17 "See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."
There are many verses, some of which I listed, which talk about old things being passed away and no more. So why are so many people so sure that the next age is the old stuff minus the sin? The old stuff without the ungodliness? Didn't Christ say:
Mark 2:22 "And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles. "
Isn't there a pattern here for us to see? The new stuff, as ray said, isn't keeping the old stuff better! That's what the church believes. I don't think the coming kingdom of God will be keeping the old stuff better either.
God bless,
Alex
lurquer:
Well, of course you could be 100% right, Alex, we don't know much at all about the next age. Speculation, all, but then that was the point of this thread..
I've always thought of the passage in Matthew 22 on marrying in the resurrection applied to those who were in the first resurrection only, but you're right, it's ambiguous at least. However, if you theorize that Christ meant that ALL in the resurrection(s) would not marry, then you are saying He'll raise mortal men in corrupt bodies (which he will) that will somehow be sexless? Interesting thought--I've never considered that. Does anyone else see it that way? (Certainly not John ;D )
I suppose I take these scriptures to give credence to the idea that children will be born during that time:
Is11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea."
And also, below, where Isaiah seems to be speaking of the elect:
Is65:17 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
And is this not saying there will still be death (at least for a time?) The Kingdom does not come to all at once. Indeed many will find themselves "outside the gates". All of the promises you mention (with which I agree and eagerly await!) come, it seems to me, at the culmination of the Kingdom, not necessarily in the beginning, no?
I'd love to hear more comment about this very interesting subject.
Kat:
Hi Alex,
This discussion stems from things Ray taught about when the kingdom comes to this world... specifically that the world will be raised back to physical life. They will be judged by the same means which the elect are now, gehenna fire. Here is where Ray explained that.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html ---------
In Matt. 23:33 Jesus warns the Pharisees of Gehenna judgment:
"Ye serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation [Gk: 'a tribunal, justice, JUDGMENT'] of Gehenna?"
And so Gehenna fire is clearly seen as a way in which Jesus Judges sinners, and specifically, the sins of the eyes, hands, and feet. Gehenna fire IS JUDGMENT. What else is Gehenna?
GEHENNA FIRE IS THE FIRE NEVER QUENCHED:
In Matt. 9:43 & 45, the Judgment for offending with our eyes, hands, and feet is again mentioned, and here we learn that the fire of this judgment "...never shall be quenched." It is not eternal fire, but it is fire that shall not be "put out" until it "burns out" all that it is designed to purge. So Gehenna fire is also the notorious "unquenchable fire." And so Gehenna fire and unquenchable fire are the same fire of JUDGMENT.
GEHENNA FIRE IS THE FURNACE OF FIRE:
"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things [those] that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 13:41-42).
This is the same Judgment of Gehenna fire which is used to judge all those who offend with their eyes, hands, and feet. Here ALL who offend are put into a furnace of fire which is the same as the unquenchable fire, and the Gehenna fire.
----------------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---There are many verses, some of which I listed, which talk about old things being passed away and no more. So why are so many people so sure that the next age is the old stuff minus the sin? The old stuff without the ungodliness?
--- End quote ---
Some of those Scripture are speaking of the 'old' covenant and the 'new' covenant, but that is a good example of the difference that the elect are experiencing right now in the world, how much more so will the difference be in the next age?
Yes there will be a "new heaven and a new earth" (Rev 21:1) that is exactly what i am trying to point out... "the former things are passed away" isn't that Satan's reign in this present world? I can certainly see that when Christ takes charge to reign that there will be such a major difference that it will be like a "new world," but we will still be on the physical earth.
If the world is to be judged by what they did/do with their "eyes, hands and feet" in the same way as the elect are being judged now, gehenna fire, then their judgment should be similar to the judgement the believers are going through now. We are given much in the Scripture that the Apostles tell the brethren who to live, so why wouldn't that apply to the judgement in the next age?
Why are some disturbed that believers should speak of those things that we have our hopes set on? This should only be an encouragement, it's not the be taken as absolute at all, but only a possibility. I truly cannot understand why somebody would think it is inappropriate to speak on these things. Everything I have tried to point out was meant to be positive and uplifting. Yes it was about the physical, because I believe the elect will be dealing with mostly a physical and carnal world for quite a while, I was just trying to make it more real. Rene pointed out this Scripture.
1Cor. 13:12 - "For we see, as yet, through a dim window, obscurely, but then face to face: as yet, I gain knowledge, in part, but then, shall I fully know, even as I was also fully known." (Rotherham)
Paul did say "as yet, I gain knowledge, in part," shouldn't we all seek to gain knowledge, didn't Christ say "seek and you shall find"... when Jesus spoke the parable about the Nobleman and the servant, He gave out "minas" something of value to each believer (Luke 19). He certainly did not think it was a good thing to bury it, He wants you to do the best you can to make it grow and increase what you have been given. I think this discussions help us to grow, it's just suppose to be an exchange of ideas to help us visualize the next age.
Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
v.8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
Hi Kat,
I don't think you did anything wrong in sharing what you think might come. I was just chiming in and maybe reminding everyone to be cautious not to take any of this as absolute fact. We are all just speculating.
I have no qualms at all with what you said about judgement and I would hope you know that I know the coming Resurrection for the vast number of people will be a physical one.
I was not trying to offend or accuse you of anything. Love you dear sister.
God bless,
Alex
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