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Kingdom of God - of the heavens
John from Kentucky:
Sex and love has nothing to do with the definition of marriage. Nothing to do with it and I’m going to prove it to you. So What is marriage? We are going to find out. Get ready for a revelation, because this may not all be what you think it is.
The above is a direct quote from Ray's Feb 2007 bible study on marriage. Again maybe some should study that bible study again.
There you go again . You say that, "the Scripture are clear that sex outside of marriage is wrong." Of course. When did I ever say that sex outside of marriage, in this age, is O.K.? Can you produce a direct quote from me that I ever said such nonsense? If not, please do not imply that I did.
Again, my belief on sex in the age to come is, "I do not know". There are not two Scriptures that discuss it.
What I object to in this thread are people who speculate about scriptural things but who do not provide two scriptures to support their opinion. Instead that do Scripture dumps of Scriptures not directly on point and think they are making some profound statement. I object to the mishandling of Scriptures.
rick:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on February 10, 2015, 02:11:31 PM ---Kat,
;D ;D ;D ;D Also, you are being dishonest.
--- End quote ---
J from K, the dictionary meaning of dishonest is as followed, dishonest >adjective not honest, trustworthy, or sincere.
You should choose your words more carefully when speaking to a believer in Christ, I don’t believe that definition fits Kat in anyway.
We all are subjected to error but to accuse Kat of not being sincere or not being honest is just outright wrong.
What’s up with the character assassination on a sister in the LORD may I ask. :(
Kat:
So let me see John... you say "That is true" about Jesus stating that they will not marry in the next age. You also agree that "of course" that sex outside of marriage is wrong... "for this age," but then you come back and say you don't know. But somehow in your not knowing you seem (just my observation, I don't want to put words in your mouth) to have limited sex being wrong outside of marriage to this age. Certainly that is just your opinion... so is what we are discussing... our opinions. But you are objecting to our opinions, because you see us as "unlearned and ignorant of the Scriptures" .... and that is your opinion too.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
John from Kentucky:
I'm bored with all this sex talk.
I'm outa of here to do something way more important---cheer on my beloved KY Wildcats basketball team. 8)
Kat, there are multiple Scriptures that forbids sex outside of marriage in this age. I agree with the Scriptures.
I don't know of two Scriptures that discuss sex in the age to come. Therefore, I have no opinion on that matter because of my respect for the Scriptures. I think I've said that three or four times. ::) End of story.
I go where the two witnesses direct.
lurquer:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on February 10, 2015, 02:11:31 PM ---
Those who have formed a conclusion on this matter are ignorant of the Scriptures because they cannot quote at least two Scriptures that directly backs up their opinion.
This question regarding sex does not offend me. In fact, I am bored with the discussion.
What is offensive are those who have formed unscriptural opinions and cannot produce two witnesses in support of their opinions. They think having a cheerleading section backs up unscriptural opinions. Blind leading the blind.
--- End quote ---
Well, since John has bowed out of the discussion, I'd like to point out to anyone else reading now or in the future that some things in the scriptures must be deduced. There is not chapter and verse on every single detail about anything. I've had to learn--and recently been reminded of that on this very thread. For example, the Hebrews 9:27 discussion... But the ultimate truth of some things must simply be deduced from other scriptures. They must be taken as a whole to avoid the dreaded 'contradictions'.. :P
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on February 10, 2015, 02:11:31 PM ---P.S. You quote Jesus saying they will not marry in the Resurrection. That is true. But marriage and sex are two different things. That is why they are two different words. That is why Ray in his marriage article states that sex is not a requirement to form a valid marriage. You need to carefully read Ray's study on marriage.
--- End quote ---
Marriage and sex are two different things only in the sense that they are cause and effect. Sex is the causal, and marriage is the effectual. Maybe John is being a little tricky here in his rhetoric, I don't know. The comment that "sex is not a requirement to form a valid marriage" is ridiculous on the face of it. John later quotes Ray as saying "sex and love have nothing to do with marriage", well, this IS an example of conflating two different things, that is "two different words", John, that truly have nothing to do with each other. "Sex" has nothing to do with "love"; but both, by themselves, have MUCH to do with marriage. One of the words is what creates it, and the other is what sustains it (or at least is the stated purpose of it!).
Whatever Ray meant by that, he could not have meant that a man and a woman can be "married" in the biblical sense, while having never had sexual relations. Or if he did, he was clearly mistaken, as anyone who has ever been married can attest to. The idea is absurd. Since marriage, the very word, means "unity", that God "has joined together" (literally) and who are now "one flesh" (literally). If you need further explanation of that, study human anatomy. There are books available on the internet for free.
Now, whether a marriage is "valid" or not, is a whole 'nother issue... And another example of conflating two words to mean the same thing. Both valid and invalid marriages involved sex; they are certainly NOT the same thing, but both were CAUSED by the same thing.
But if there will be no marriage in the kingdom, as Jesus said, then there can be no sex. Simple deduction.. No two witnesses needed. ;)
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