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The Marriage Vow
santgem:
Actually, there will be sex in the coming age............
but those who are in Jesus in this age.................no more!
Luke 20:27
Isaiah 65:20-23
The "wolves" COME IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING! You don’t see their teeth. They don’t show their teeth. They only show you a huggie huggie kissie kissie pious religious smile. THAT my friends, that pious front, IS the "sheep’s clothing." Wolves BITE, and their bite can be deadly:
santgem
Kat:
Hi Michael,
I would like to bring up a point in what is being discussed from Ray 'Marriage" article and that is he is only speaking of the 'definition' of what constitutes a 'marriage' and not what is involved in the actual state of being married. Here are excerpts that show this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.0.html -------
I’m going to talk about what constitutes marriage, not the marriage state of how to have a happy marriage, that’s a subject for another Bible study.
v
It is not what most people think and people will be dumb founded when they find out what the Bible has to say about marriage. I’m going to give you a little secret, the marriage state, that is the institution of two people being married together, sharing their lives together, living in a home producing children, so on and so forth, of that the Bible has virtually nothing to say. Yet the word marriage or marry is in there over and over and over and over… but not the things I just said.
v
(5) We are espoused or betrothed to Christ. 2 Cor. 11:2 “For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ.” This is talking about the betrothal, the espousal even before the wedding ceremony.
Why does He call us espoused to Christ? Because we are not married yet to Christ. When are we to be married to Christ? When does the scripture say? In the resurrection, right. What is that marriage? What does it say in Rev. 19:7 that we are going to have? “…For the marriage of the Lamb has come…” It’s a wedding ceremony! It uses the word marriage twice there, in chapter 19. It says marriage, but that’s the contract or the covenant.
Then in verse 9 it adds a word to marriage, “the marriage supper.” This is all part of the festivities of a marriage ceremony, not marriage itself.
(6) Numerous times God likens His spiritual union with His Elect saints to that of the physical espousal, physical wedding ceremony and physical wedding supper or feast, with little mention of the conditions of the later marriage itself.
Isa 62:5 For as a young man marries a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee; and as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over you.
So when we read ‘marriage’ in the Bible, especially in the New Test. You are going to have to readjust your thinking. It is not talking about the marriage state, it’s talking about the getting married. Always, getting married, the ceremony.
(7) Jesus likewise likens His spiritual union with the Elect, with virgins waiting for Christ the Bridegroom to return for a wedding (Matt. 25:10). A wedding - the ceremony and wedding feast/supper of a marriage.
He’s called the Bridegroom. You know what a Bridegroom is, that is somebody who is not yet exchanged the vows or oath to become the husband. That's why He is the Bridegroom. It all has to do with before marriage and during the ceremony and the supper and the festivities connected with it, almost every place you read it in the Bible.
What this person says in the email is not true, it is totally off base.
(08) Sex outside of marriage is adultery and whoredom, by definition. Of course most people are guilty of that, yours truly included. But that is the fact, it is called adultery and whoredom.
Heb 13:4 Marriage (matrimony) is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled; but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Marriage would probably been better translated matrimony, that is actually the marriage state, when a couple are married and living together as husband and wife. That institution there, matrimony. But notice what He contrasts it with… matrimony is honorable, what is matrimony? It’s somebody who went through a wedding with exchanging of vows and forming a covenant.
v
Notice what He contrast it with… matrimony. The marriage institution is honorable and the bed undefiled - having sex together as a husband and wife. The word undefiled, that’s kind of a semi-negative to me, the word is pure. Why put undefiled? The word is pure. The marriage bed between a husband and wife is pure in God’s eyes. It’s pure to have sex with your wife or your mate, that’s pure.
But notice what the opposite is, if it’s not marriage, “…but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” If you are not in matrimony in your wedding bed, what does God consider you? A whoremonger and a adulterer. Now do I need to read Rev. 21:8, “All whoremongers will find their place in the Lake of fire.” Is that not clear enough there? People don’t put these things together. If you are not married, but you live together, you are a whoremonger and adulterer.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ian 155:
This is my understanding.
As I have said in many posts before The tree of Life has 2 names, Good And Evil
First up to lay a foundation ...the biggest miracle which happened to me thru Rays writings, taught me ...To hear and understand the word Carnally is BAD (our own interpretation /understanding is DEATH)many of us walk in this state.
The good part of tree in the garden is Spirit and Life the Evil part of the tree is Death or carnality.
When Jesus was confronted by the "churchy folk" regarding whose wife is the woman after 7 husbands died...he said
Mat 22:29, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God."
Mat 22:30 for in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven."
To reiterate what Ray said, Heaven is not a geographical location heaven is IN you.... so heaven is a state of mind and, as far as I can see from the word, a 3rd state /level of heaven (spiritual understanding) is attainable.
In order to enter heaven one MUST be born a new/born again/be resurrected.
With this in mind
Eph 5:31 For this "a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh."
Eph 5:32 this secret is great: yet I am saying this as to Christ and as to the ecclesia.
Eph 5:33 Moreover, you also individually, each be loving his own wife thus, as himself, yet that the wife may be fearing the husband." Note - we are to fear God
So to a higher level of understanding
Jesus is the groom I am the Bride, once I am at a level of spiritual maturity(remember we are as new born babes and we grow) I live as though I am not physically married to a woman
1Co 7:29 Now this I am averring, brethren, the era is limited; that, furthermore, those also having wives may be as not having them,
so if Jesus is becoming my all, he is in me and I am in him (we become one). Physically the 2 become 1 flesh; spiritually I and Christ become 1 in spirit.
We then, also have spiritual offspring
So the “50 shades of Grey” stuff is not applicable when walking in the spirit or in the spiritual understanding of what marriage is.
One can as does get involved in spiritual adultery, that is walking with a carnal mind and “hopping” over to the mind of Christ - as Paul states “starting off in the spirit and ending up in the flesh”. I believe this is necessary part of our becoming 1 in the spirit.
David pleads with God Not to take his Holy Spirit from him, I believe when we walk according to the flesh we are committing adultery against Christ.
But, fear not, he always brings us back.
Ian
Kat:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on February 12, 2015, 08:08:52 AM ---This is my understanding.
As I have said in many posts before The tree of Life has 2 names, Good And Evil
First up to lay a foundation ...the biggest miracle which happened to me thru Rays writings, taught me ...To hear and understand the word Carnally is BAD (our own interpretation /understanding is DEATH)many of us walk in this state.
The good part of tree in the garden is Spirit and Life the Evil part of the tree is Death or carnality.
--- End quote ---
Ian, there were 2 trees represented in the garden.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
The "Tree of Life" represents Christ and the Holy Spirit and there is absolutely no evil in that what so ever.
The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" represents our partaking of this physical/carnal life, the good and the evil of it.
--- Quote ---so if Jesus is becoming my all, he is in me and I am in him (we become one). Physically the 2 become 1 flesh; spiritually I and Christ become 1 in spirit.
--- End quote ---
The elect have not physical or spiritual join and become one with Christ yet, not until the first resurrection. Yes there is the begettal/earnest/promise now with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but this is not born/joined/one with Christ now in this life, that is yet to come.
John 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born (begotten CLV) again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
v. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
v. 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
v. 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
v. 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1Cor 13:12 for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;
Here is a couple places where Ray spoke about this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html ----------
You got to be careful, when Christ said, “except you be born again” we are not born again. But we are begotten anew, from on high. Some of these words are left out of the KJ. It should be “we are begotten anew, from on high.” You are begotten once in the flesh from our parents. Now we are begotten anew, a new begettal from on high. When we are born into the kingdom of God, then we are made where our flesh and blood is turned into spiritual bodies. We will be like God, brother of Christ, like God. So which of the of the sons did He ever say that? Well He said that to His Son, but He never said it to the angels.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm ------------------------
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection" (Rom. 6:4).
But we are not literally resurrected to immortality as Jesus was, when we are raised from the dead after being baptized into JESUS, are we? No, not literally, that is why Paul says we are to, "reckon you also yourselves to be dead."
"Likewise r-e-c-k-o-n you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11).
The Greek word for "reckon" means "to estimate, conclude, impute, reason, reckon, suppose, think." It is not necessary to "reckon" something that is literally a present reality. In the future we will literally be free from all sin and literally have immortality in resurrection, but for now we can just "reckon" it.
This death is not a literal, physical death, but it is a REAL death, and it is most important:
"Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him" (Rom. 6:08).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
lurquer:
Hi Kat,
I appreciate what you said regarding Ray's study, "that is he is only speaking of the 'definition' of what constitutes a 'marriage' and not what is involved in the actual state of being married."
I understood that. He wasn't giving advice on how to be happily married, or an exposition of Paul's commands to husbands and wives on how they should treat each other.. He was only speaking of the definition of marriage.. that is, who can rightly claim to be married. Regardless of what they've done (or not done) to each other in the married state. In other words, the relationship is irrelevant.
But I'm not talking about that either. If I claim to be married (per Ray's understanding), I must produce evidence of a vow. What was the vow, and where is it now?
These questions naturally lead to other questions (see my first post). I think they need to be discussed, as they are important issues that can easily lead believers (especially young ones) to make lifelong errors if they are incorrectly understood. In fact, this subject naturally dovetails into the next, which is the nature of sexual sin, and why it is fundamentally different than any other sin. Very few have a good handle on why that is so (myself included), but it is intriguing.
So who has some answers for me!
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