> General Discussions
The Marriage Vow
Gina:
--- Quote from: Neo on February 15, 2015, 06:12:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ricky on February 15, 2015, 01:35:31 PM ---I thought Adam and Eve were brought together by God spiritually, no vows, no wedding, no limo, and no Pagan stuff; Maybe we should be doing the same. Ricky
--- End quote ---
Indeed, Ricky. But we still have the age old problem of hearing ears... "Who hath believed our report?"
--- End quote ---
Ricky: It is not true that God brought them together spiritually. Obviously there was no limo. Let's be real. But God did not bring them together spiritually.
The spiritual does not come first, but the physical does, and then comes the spiritual. 1 Cor. 15:46
Gen 2:22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and [physically] brought her to the man.
Here is the vow from the first Adam:
23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
24 For this reason a man shall [physically] leave his father and his mother, and be [physically] joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
As for sex making a marriage, I think not:
2 Samuel 13 Living Bible
1 Prince Absalom, David’s son, had a beautiful sister named Tamar. And Prince Amnon (her half brother) fell desperately in love with her.
2 Amnon became so tormented by his love for her that he became ill. He had no way of talking to her, for the girls and young men were kept strictly apart.
3 But Amnon had a very crafty friend—his cousin Jonadab (the son of David’s brother Shimeah).
4 One day Jonadab said to Amnon, “What’s the trouble? Why should the son of a king look so haggard morning after morning?”
So Amnon told him, “I am in love with Tamar, my half sister.”
5 “Well,” Jonadab said, “I’ll tell you what to do. Go back to bed and pretend you are sick; when your father comes to see you, ask him to let Tamar come and prepare some food for you. Tell him you’ll feel better if she feeds you.”
6 So Amnon did. And when the king came to see him, Amnon asked him for this favor—that his sister Tamar be permitted to come and cook a little something for him to eat.
7 David agreed and sent word to Tamar to go to Amnon’s quarters and prepare some food for him.
8 So she did and went into his bedroom so that he could watch her mix some dough; then she baked some special bread for him.
9 But when she set the serving tray before him, he refused to eat!
“Everyone get out of here,” he told his servants; so they all left the apartment.
10 Then he said to Tamar, “Now bring me the food again here in my bedroom and feed it to me.” So Tamar took it to him.
11 But as she was standing there before him, he grabbed her and demanded, “Come to bed with me, my darling.”
12 “Oh, Amnon,” she cried. “Don’t be foolish! Don’t do this to me! You know what a serious crime it is in Israel.
13 Where could I go in my shame? And you would be called one of the greatest fools in Israel. Please, just speak to the king about it, for he will let you marry me.”
14 But he wouldn’t listen to her; and since he was stronger than she, he forced her.
15 Then suddenly his love turned to hate, and now he hated her more than he had loved her.
“Get out of here!” he snarled at her.
16 “No, no!” she cried. “To reject me now is a greater crime than the other you did to me.”
But he wouldn’t listen to her.
17-18 He shouted for his valet and demanded, “Throw this woman out and lock the door behind her.”
So he put her out. She was wearing a long robe with sleeves, as was the custom in those days for virgin daughters of the king.
19 Now she tore the robe and put ashes on her head and with her head in her hands went away crying.
20 Her brother Absalom asked her, “Is it true that Amnon raped you? Don’t be so upset, since it’s all in the family anyway. It’s not anything to worry about!”
So Tamar lived as a desolate woman in her brother Absalom’s quarters.
Tamar wasn't now a woman who'd received no certificate of divorce from her husband. Tamar was actually willing to be (to be = as in they were not yet) married to Amnon BEFORE and after he forced himself on her, but he wouldn't marry her because he hated her. So, therefore, there was no marriage simply because they had sex.
And Absalom had Amnon murdered and the rest, as they say is history.
Case dismissed!
Next....................?!
:-0
lurquer:
Gina,
Huh? That was a clear case of rape. She was unwilling to have a sexual union with her brother... But once the deed was done, it was done. Her pitiful plea to accept it as a "covenant marriage" was just that...pitiful. Surely you understand what her options were at that point. What case is closed??
--- Quote ---Here is the vow from the first Adam:
23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
24 For this reason a man shall [physically] leave his father and his mother, and be [physically] joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
--- End quote ---
So that's the vow? Those are the magic words we need to say to "marry" another? Really--was my wife taken from my body during surgery when I was hermaphroditic, like Adam? Big time reaching now, aren't we?
Listen, the "marriage covenant", in the words of Ray, 'is a Christian Hoax.' There is no "vow" that makes a couple man and wife. Keep searching though, if it matters to you.
Gina:
Could have been the vow in the presence of witnesses. Why not? We certainly have record of it in writing, don't we. he he
Okay, so you've stated your position succinctly. If you're satisfied with that and you believe that and you believe that God agrees with your position, you should be very happy. But you don't sound very happy and sure don't sound very sure. You sound like you need a lot of convincing. You sound like you need people to agree with you before you can believe it yourself. If you believe you have the truth, you certainly don't need OUR blessing. The only one you need to affirm the truth is God.
Good luck with that.
wat:
--- Quote from: Neo on February 15, 2015, 06:09:07 PM ---Ok Loc.. I give. The correct answer, as you say, is probably the simplist. Now I just need you to tell me what, exactly, is that simple answer. I STILL have not received an answer to my original question...I suppose it can only be because no one has a clue.
--- End quote ---
The simplest answer is what Ray pointed out over and over again, that marriage happens through a ceremony, a wedding, not sex. Your original question "what is the vow?" Who cares? The vows can be whatever you want them to be. As long as you have a wedding ceremony.
I thought Joel brought up a good point. How is it that the woman at the well wasn't married?
Gina:
Michael, you have such a double standard. You say you believe that vows are unnecessary when it comes to marriage, but then you turn around and beg us to answer you just so that you can have visible, written proof that people are in agreement with you. haha! You are a funny man, Michael.
Come on, let's stop this nonsense and be glad for what we have. A vow in marriage and a ceremony isn't some extreme heavy burden that people are under. You wed your wife, voluntarily! Nobody held a gun to your head, ha ha -- you WANTED to marry her, remember? You would have done anything to marry her, remember? So what's the big deal?
You're bringing this forum down to the dumps over something you say you're unclear on but then you finally let out your position, but still you have double standard.
If I were in your shoes, I'd be really embarrassed.
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