Ok Neo, can you state your views explicitly for me? I say marriage is done through a wedding with witnesses. What do you say?
How is a marriage defined by God? Interesting explanation of the woman at the well. I don't know if it's true, I'll have to think about it some more. But you say the woman had illicit marriages, six to be exact, the five before and the one now. She was married, only illicitly, but still married. What makes a marriage illicit and what makes a marriage lawful? Are the people who get married today not actually married according to God? How do I get married the right way? I have a nephew born out of wedlock, or so I thought. His parents never had a wedding. They had sex of course. Are they married? If so, is it lawful or unlawful? I'll admit I'm having trouble understanding your view completely, so if you could spell it out for me, I think it would help this discussion.
Hi Loc,
What I say about marriage is not the issue. I’m a seeker, like you. I don't define marriage, nor have I attempted to. As I said before, it belongs to God; He invented it, let Him describe it. “yea, let God be true, but every man a liar”
But, if you could have all your questions above answered, you would understand marriage indeed! (I don’t know if we can get there from here, but I’ll at least try and re-state what I have already said—hope it helps).
Does God say “a marriage is done by a wedding and witnesses?” If not, where did you get that? I’ve searched, and not found any such thing in the scriptures. The word “marriage” is like many other dictionary words, in that when you look them up, they have more than one meaning. Right? In the Bible, it is used to describe a
sexual unity between a man and a woman (whether or not it is adultery/fornication or ‘legitimate’). Whether a marriage is legitimate or not depends on the circumstances of your “joining”…in other words, were you “qualified” to be husband and wife? I think we all understand the difference between being a virgin, and being a harlot (or an adulteress). It is not lawful to marry your mother, or your sister, or someone else’s wife, ok? Everyone here agrees with that, including Ray. As an example, if you "marry" your neighbor's wife, it is not legitamte (even if the state issues you a "license"--as they surely will, provided you pay the correct fees and fill out the proper paperwork).
The word marriage is ALSO used to describe a “marriage by vow”, or an espousal. In this marriage, the couple is treated as if they were married physically (ONE FLESH), even though they
have not yet consummated it.. Like we saw before, this was the case with Joseph and Mary during the time of her pregnancy with Jesus. I don’t think either of these two principles is in dispute, so I’m not “teaching” anything here—only stating what we already know.
The scriptures clearly delineate these in Deut. 22: 22-24:
22 If a man be found lying with a
woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
23 If a damsel that is a
virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
See how the “married woman” is distinguished from the “virgin” who was betrothed… yet both had a “husband”. The former was married by sexual union, the latter, married by “vow”. Yet both were stoned for their unfaithfulness.
There are the two types of marriages, according to the Bible I read. And of the “marriage by joining" (union), we see that can be either “legitimate”, or “adulterous”. We understand the difference there.
Paul said in 1 Cor 7,
34
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
Clearly the “wife” who is
married, is not the “virgin”, who is
unmarried. Notice, please, that is PAUL’s distinction, not mine. He has used their sexual past to identify their marital status. (Some have said here that “you don’t have to have sex to be married”…Paul explicitly disagrees.)
Read the rest of the chapter…see how Paul tells the
betrothed husband if he wants to “keep his virgin” (as a virgin), he “doeth better” than he who “marries” her! Get it?
Starting from the beginning of scripture, over and again, you will see the same pattern of a man “going into a woman” and “marrying her”.. I pointed many of these out already (Jacob and Leah/Rachel, Isaac and Rebekah, Abraham and Hagar). Here’s another example:
Gen 8: 6 And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar.
7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
8 And Judah said unto Onan,
Go in unto thy brother's wife,
and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Purely a sexual union… Check it out: Onan was ok with the sex, but not with “raising up seed”, so God killed him too.
We talked about the woman at the well, and the reference to King Herod “
having his brother’s wife”. John tells him (at the risk of being killed!), “it is not lawful to have thy brother’s wife!” But the scripture says Herod “married” her! So, he must have applied for the proper divorce permits and filled out the right paperwork and all that, I guess…to make it “legal”. But then, how did John declare it was NOT legal? What law was he referring to? Seems to me, Herod skipped the ceremony on that one…maybe the “license” too. Nevertheless, he was “married” to another man’s wife!
So says the text.
Well, that’s what I’ve seen in the scriptures defining the two types of marriage. I saw nowhere in any of these passages (or any other) where a “marriage vow” or “marriage covenant” or “license” or any such thing was either required,
or mentioned…
And that’s where I get my views. How about you?