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Author Topic: Darkness forever  (Read 1755 times)

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William

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Darkness forever
« on: February 21, 2015, 10:28:21 PM »

To members I'm new this and have joined because I wanted more information about outer darkness in the gospels but more specific 2 Peter 2:17 and Jude 13. The outer darkness in the Gospels seem as they are temporary punishments and the ones in the epistles are forever. I'm not a Morman but I believe this is what they teach. Anyway I feel like I have commited the unpardonable sin. I know the answer that if you are worried about it you have not committed the sin. Either way could someone explain the examples in the epistals.

God bless
William
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Darkness forever
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 10:52:08 PM »

To members I'm new this and have joined because I wanted more information about outer darkness in the gospels but more specific 2 Peter 2:17 and Jude 13. The outer darkness in the Gospels seem as they are temporary punishments and the ones in the epistles are forever. I'm not a Morman but I believe this is what they teach. Anyway I feel like I have commited the unpardonable sin. I know the answer that if you are worried about it you have not committed the sin. Either way could someone explain the examples in the epistals.

God bless
William

Hi William and welcome to the forums.

Have you had a time to read ray's writings on the homepage? All of your questions are answered there. There is no such thing as the word "forever" in the scriptures and God's punishments are certainly not infinite. Judgement serves a good purpose and has redeeming value. It is through judgement that the world be saved.

Isaiah 26:9 "With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness."

Everyone is tried by the same fire, that fire is God, and this is ultimately what will save every person. Notice the fire that is used to save tries each individual's works and is not used to burn the individual himself.

Hebrews 12:29 "For our God is a consuming fire."

Mark 9:49 "For every one [Sinner and Saint] shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt."

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

1 Corinthians 3:13-17 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

1 Timothy 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

In Christ,
Alex

P.S. The lake of fire does not last forever. It is the second death (Rev. 20:14), and paul says death itself will be abolished (1 Cor 15:26), hence it cannot last forever!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 10:57:53 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

William

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Re: Darkness forever
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 11:12:03 PM »

1. I have read about what he taught that unpardonable sin that it will not be forgiven in this age or the next, but I dont under stand what is the third age and when will it be forgiven.
2. I could never find any explanation of the darkness in 2 Peter or Jude, these are the ones that have compleatly fell from grace. The outer darkness in the gospels are for ones that were unprofitable or dabbling in sin and we're not ready for his return. Revelations says "and I will not erace your name from the book of life.
3. Who are the ones that are not going to make it?
I'm sorry if most of this stuff is answered on his site I just have not read everything yet anyone's directions will help.

God Bless
William

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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Darkness forever
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 11:55:28 PM »

1. I have read about what he taught that unpardonable sin that it will not be forgiven in this age or the next, but I dont under stand what is the third age and when will it be forgiven.
2. I could never find any explanation of the darkness in 2 Peter or Jude, these are the ones that have compleatly fell from grace. The outer darkness in the gospels are for ones that were unprofitable or dabbling in sin and we're not ready for his return. Revelations says "and I will not erace your name from the book of life.
3. Who are the ones that are not going to make it?
I'm sorry if most of this stuff is answered on his site I just have not read everything yet anyone's directions will help.

God Bless
William

William,

You really need to take the time to stop, sit down, and start with the first lake of fire series article. Your questions are answered.

There is no "fall." Satan is not a "fallen angel."

There are angels that have sinned and they will be judged but they will be judged by us.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The outer darkness is not an easy concept to understand and Ray never wrote on it SPECIFICALLY. I can gather some of the scriptures on it for you but I cannot give you a definitive answer on what I think it is. I have some suspicions but until I am more certain I won't speculate.

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Jude 1:6 "Besides, messengers [Angels] who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day." (CLV)

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God spares not sinning messengers, [Angels] but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;" (CLV)

Children of the kingdom I believe is a reference to Isreal after the flesh because of the previous v. 11.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here it is used in a parable:

Matthew 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Here it is used in another parable:

Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now here you see a reference to even satin being thrown into a "pit" and "chained" to be reserved for judgement.

Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The point of me showing you all this is to show you the ultimate result of all this chaining/casting to outer darkness/keeping for judgement. It all goes to one place:

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

What about the unprofitable servant, children of the kingdom, and the angels? Where do they go in judgement? The same place!

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That about sums up everyone don't you think? Look, even death and hell are cast into the lake of fire!

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So what you should concern yourself with is what is the lake of fire? What does fire do? What is the purpose of judgement? Does the lake of fire last forever? Etc....

The book of life is Christ. Those not found in Christ will have to go through the lake of fire. This does not last forever. It is judgement.

Everyone will make it in the end

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Please read what ray wrote on the home page, you have A LOT to learn and I possibly cannot go over everything in this thread. There is no point in me reinviting the wheel here when ray has already masterfully done it.

1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (The lake of fire is the SECOND DEATH, it WILL come to an end! It is not eternal.)
1 Cor 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Hope you understand.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: Darkness forever
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 12:48:58 AM »


Hi William,

Mat 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Jesus is light, Jesus is truth, so truth is light.

John 8:12  Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

John 14:6  Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

When we love and obey Jesus, we are in the light... to be in darkness is the opposite. When a person is so carnal minded as to despise the truth - the Word of God - Jesus, that is evil.

John 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

When a person's heart is so dark and they embrace that darkness to such a degree, that when the light has been shown to them, that they blasphemy in the face of the truth - Holy Spirit, then that person has made their choice. That's what the Pharisees did, they knew Jesus was from God...

John 3:1  There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
v. 2  This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, WE KNOW that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."

This is what Ray said about who those are that are cast into "outer darkness"...

http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html --------------

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and the west [Gentiles], and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the Kingdom of Heaven, but the children of the kingdom [Judah--the Jews] shall be cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Mat. 8:11-12).

Christ is not telling us that "Jews" from the East and "Jews" from the West will sit down with Abraham, but that the "Jews" shall be cast out." Thatís contradictory. Itís the "Jews" who are the "children of the kingdom" who are "cast out." And those from the East and West are "GENTILES." Christ is telling us who these "many" are because He is commenting on the faith that God has given to this Centurion Gentile.
-----------------------------------------------------------

What the Pharisees did was carry their wickedness to another level, they actually went up against the person of God, Jesus... now I wonder if they will be among the last to receive their salvation.

Matt 20:16  So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.

There are many things we don't know now, we don't know how many ages there are yet to come, and how judgment will be completed for those not receiving it in the next age or for the angels either. We know that Satan must yet be released at the end of the next age and deceive the nations...

What we do know is that Christ will not stop until He has put ALL things in subjection under His feet, not if, but "WHEN all things are subjected to Him." So lets not worry about what we don't understand yet.. your fears may be pointless, all you can do is seek to obey the best you can by God's grace granted to you.

1Cor 15:25  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

1Cor 15:28  When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to Him who put all things in subjection under Him, that God may be all in all.

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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John from Kentucky

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Re: Darkness forever
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 03:25:16 PM »

William,

Set your mind at rest.  The Good God we follow saves everyone.  He is the Good Shepherd Who collects all lost sheep.

A perfect God saves all---100%---because anything less falls short of perfection.  His very nature requires the salvation of all because He never fails at anything.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Darkness forever
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 08:51:00 PM »

William,

Set your mind at rest.  The Good God we follow saves everyone.  He is the Good Shepherd Who collects all lost sheep.

A perfect God saves all---100%---because anything less falls short of perfection.  His very nature requires the salvation of all because He never fails at anything.

Very nice John  :)
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