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Is your faith challenged when you hear about UFO’s
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Rick on March 09, 2015, 03:58:10 PM ---
Hi Alex,
Yes Alex, that’s what I was asking you. Do you believe that people never tell the truth ? We live in a system that is corrupt but truth can always be verified so that we are not left in the dark so to speak.
I’m not saying that a person of higher rank than me cannot lie however what I am saying is when we have many people such as astronauts and aircraft pilots stating what they saw and we have access to the transcripts so we can read exactly what was said then we can reasonably assume they are telling the truth.
In the beginning we take mans word that the bible is the inspired word of God at least I did, meaning, God never spoke to me in an audible voice telling me the bible is His inspired word.
Once there was a time in my life Alex, I believed the ruling class wrote the bible to keep us peasants in line through fear of hell in order for them to not be over run by we peasants.
Today I know better than that, now the life of the apostles played a huge role in my belief in Christ due to the fact that if Christ was nothing more than a hoax, after His death the apostles would have saved their own skin and disperse but they did not, in fact every apostles was crucified except John who gave us through Christ the book of Revelation. What a incredible testimony the apostles gave the whole world.
God has brought me a long way from where I once was, I really do trust Christ for not only my spiritual life here and now but also my physical life too.
So Alex, I came across this scripture Luk 21:11 There will be terrible earthquakes, famines, and plagues everywhere; there will be strange and terrifying things coming from the sky.
I understand what earthquakes are and famine also plagues too, but strange and terrifying things coming from the sky, what is Jesus talking about ? Ray doesn’t believe in aliens and neither do I.
So what is Jesus referring to ? Is it a sin to ask such a thing ? According to this statement Jesus said something is coming out of the sky that is going to be terrifying , I want to know what it is that’s coming from the sky that is not only strange but terrifying . Jesus said that for a reason and I have no intention of hiding my head in the sand when it comes to anything God says.
You know Alex, if Ray never questioned what Christendom taught him or what this scripture or that scripture means most of us would still be in the dark, we should all be thankful Ray questioned everything.
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick,
Ray did not question the integrity (honesty) of the Apostles and their inspired words. There's a big difference.I sence a bit of dishonesty coming from you in trying to make it seem like questioning the church/christendom/babylon (which ray did do) and questioning the apostles (which he did not do) is the same thing. Ray spoke strongly against those who would dare make the argument that James and Paul contradicted or that we should throw out Paul's writings as uninspired by God. So I do not believe the apostles inspired words of God are to be approached with the same skepticism. Ray certainly did not wonder if the apostles were telling the truth or not. As I said, to look at their words in that manner would be to look upon God in that manner for they are His inspired words.
Regarding Luke 21:11, Its not sin to ask questions and you know that. I simply urged caution in putting so much confidence in the tales and stories of carnal men when it comes to matters of God. We are all trying to better understand these words of Christ. Just remember that His Words are spirit and that every word must be established in the mouth of two or three witnesses. Comparing spiritual with spiritual for the SUM of thy word is truth. Perhaps there is a physical and literal reality to what Christ said because we are told that the first is natural then the spiritual but I currently don't know entirely. Obviously the spiritual implications are far more important because they would ALWAYS apply so then maybe its best to try and understand spiritually what is going on before Christ returns.
We do have a really good discussion going on in the other thread you started about this stuff so perhaps try putting the verses together there and we can see what comes of it. In God's time it will be revealed to us completely but we have to obey God and humble ourselves before Him most importantly. As a dear sister in Christ once said to me "Obeying and studying is not a casual endeavor, we must put God first, and THEN He will bless our seeking more knowledge..." and as JFK is known for saying on the forums, to the man who trembles at God's Word.
God bless,
Alex
Dave in Tenn:
Could be this has nothing to do with anything, but I watched a documentary a few days ago about the bombing of Darwin, Australia during WWII. One Aussie veteran was recounting the dive-bombers screaming out of the sky and it was clear just 'remembering' this caused him to re-live the fear. That was a 'fearful thing' coming 'out of the sky'...and, if you think about it, in more ways than one.
One thing I could note to you in bible-study, Rick. You seem to gravitate towards 'paraphrases' and not translations. There's not always anything wrong with that. Sometimes the paraphrases are quite good and accurate. At other times, they can be misleading because they approach certain scriptural passages with a theological assumption that just really isn't in the words inspired.
Here's some other translations of that same verse:
(BBE) There will be great earth-shocks and outbursts of disease in a number of places, and men will be without food; and there will be wonders and great signs from heaven.
(CEV) There will be great earthquakes, and in many places people will starve to death and suffer terrible diseases. All sorts of frightening things will be seen in the sky.
(Darby) there shall be both great earthquakes in different places, and famines and pestilences; and there shall be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
(DRB) And there shall be great earthquakes in divers places and pestilences and famines and terrors from heaven: and there shall be great signs.
(JUB) and there shall be great earthquakes in different places and famines and pestilences, and there shall be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
(KJV) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
(LEB) There will be great earthquakes and famines and plagues in various places. There will be terrible sights and great signs from heaven.
(LITV) Also there will be great earthquakes from place to place, and famines, and plagues. And also there will be terrors and great signs from Heaven.
(Murdock) and great earthquakes will occur in several places, and famines, and pestilences; and there will be terrors, and trepidations, and great signs from heaven will be seen, and there will be great tempests.
(WNT) And there will be great earthquakes, and in places famines and pestilence; and there will be terrible sights and wonderful tokens from Heaven.
(YLT) great shakings also in every place, and famines, and pestilences, there shall be; fearful things also, and great signs from heaven there shall be;
It takes study and 'comparing' spiritual with spiritual to get through such a diversity of possible 'translations' of the inspired words. We have to do that with some humility when we really don't know for absolutely sure what is actually being said, much less what it means.
rick:
Hi Alex,
I’m not sure what to say to you Alex, accusing me of being dishonest, that hurts, I think your zeal for the apostles lead you to read something I never wrote.
If I said Ray questioned the integrity of the apostles, please point it out to me as I do not recall making that statement.
I never said anything about James or Paul contradicting one another or even the bible having any contradictions either.
I do understand that you urged caution in putting so much confidence in the tales and stories of carnal men as you say and I thank you for that but are we so spiritual that we are no longer carnal men ourselves Alex ?
I apologize for the confusion Alex, You know Alex, I would of said the same thing to God that Moses said ,send another to Pharaoh for I’m not a good speaker. Lol
God bless you my brother in Christ. :)
rick:
Hi Dave,
I would agree if someone saw a dive bomber coming out of the sky it would be a fearful thing especially if one is on the ground under the dive bomber.
I use e sword and had downloaded all the free bibles and even purchased some to. The translation I used of Luk 21:11 best suited the point I had in mind.
I understand that paraphrase can be a good thing but can also be misleading as well. So I don’t rely on paraphrase but in this case of of Luk 21 :11 it seems to be on the money.
I have read many of the translations you had put down as to grasp exactly what its meaning is, my understanding of the term heaven is one in the same as sky.
But as I read these verses and many others whether it says ,
there shall be fearful sights and great signs from heaven
terrors from heaven: and there shall be great signs
fearful things also, and great signs from heaven there shall be;
there will be terrors, and trepidations, and great signs from heaven will be seen
there will be strange and terrifying things coming from the sky.
No matter how I look at these verses it leads me to believe something is coming out of the sky at some point in time that is going to be outright frightening.
Ricky:
I think this generation will be long gone before anything supernatural happens, we wont be alive. What kinds of questions will they be asking on BT 75 years from now.
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