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lurquer:
Alex:
--- Quote ---Yes a man can ILLEGALLY marry a woman in an adulterous affair but that has NOTHING to do with SEX.
--- End quote ---
Ok, I'll bite one more time...Tell me how--I mean precisely--one gets "illegally married". How does it occur? HOW did Herod marry his brother's wife?
And how long have you been married, Alex?
lurquer:
Dave, I’ve considered what you said and your accusation against me. I wasn’t going to respond as I know it’s pointless—you are convinced of your belief and honestly, I don’t care much at all to change your mind. But at the same time I’d like you to know where I was coming from in my thoughts on this matter of marriage…Because you’ve misjudged me. It is you who have erred.
You tell me I have an “idol” because I won’t agree with your contrary opinion. You subscribe to a nebulous “contract theory” of marriage—most likely, merely because, as you said, “Ray taught it". Yet I’ve asked wherein this “contract” is outlined in Scripture… Still, nothing. But you most assuredly believe in it. And yet I have an idol.
Well, we all have idols Dave. But I believe I’ve searched the scriptures enough to reject the contract theory. I’ve asked here what the Contract was--what the Vow was-- that you are 100% convinced exists, and NO ONE has produced even a watery theory of it. Not ONE SCRIPTURE for my consideration… A contract is a promise. If ‘marriage is a promise’, then you have the burden of explaining what it is I am promising, to be “legally married”.
That’s all I’ve asked. You, Dave, said “God holds people to their vows”. I’m not so sure about that, but even so, WHAT is the VOW I am being held to if I’ve married a wife? You tell me and I’ll forever shut up about this. And that’s a promise.
This subject has been on my heart for many years now… I’m not real sure why, and I’m not sure it matters as much as perhaps I think it does. If you’ll never marry, it probably doesn’t matter at all to you. But I’ve seen a parallel among a few here which reminds me of the anger I’ve seen in others who are confronted by our refutation of hell and ‘free will’. THAT is an idol of the heart of almost all churched Christians I’ve ever known. They truly WANT their free will and Hell for those who disagree.
I just sense a greasy similarity amongst some here (and others I’ve spoken to) who otherwise seem to “get it”, but when it comes to sexual sin, they manage to contort themselves into fantastic theo-logic pretzels. Is there a simple explanation for this? Like maybe those who KNOW the scriptures sufficiently well want an excuse to “marry” (another) mate of their choosing without the guilt of knowing it is adultery? In other words, if your ‘youthful sin’ of fornication with another is just that—a childish mistake—then you’re not disqualified for “marriage” to another! (per Jesus’ commands to the contrary in Matt 19:9) Having a ‘legitimate Christian marriage’ then is still possible—with God’s blessing!—because you were never (legally) married before! A simple accounting error is all. Forgot to submit the paperwork. Transaction voided…
So God gives you a Mulligan. Right?
Well, believe me, I‘ve seem this play out before my own eyes, even amongst my own family. Time and time again. And the rotten consequences to follow. Maybe that’s why it matters to me.
Or, maybe it’s just a silly idol of my heart. Judge rightly my friend. But don't accuse from a lack of evidence.
John from Kentucky:
Neo,
You are very close to the unpardonable sin, which is boring me to tears :'(.
Everyone here is free (?) to believe what they will (?).
But Ray's study on marriage was backed up by Scriptures. Ray convinced me from the Scriptures.
I have read your posts----no cigar. I find your statements incoherent and twisting of the Scriptures.
So, did I say this about you before or someone else? "Fox in the hen house, Run chicks, Run!
John, the bored one
rick:
I know Paul the apostle said that a man who does not take care of his family is worst than a man without faith, so we can say that taking care of one’s family is a part of the contract or maybe the entire contract.
Don’t forget about adultery, that would be another part of the contract too, no other than the one you married. :)
Dave in Tenn:
Neo, you're essentially asking me to 'back up' every statement made by everybody else. No can do.
For instance: I don't know about this concept of "being married in God's eyes". Maybe it's in scripture...I'm not the world's greatest bible-scholar by a long shot...but it sounds to me like a 'made-up' phrase. I am also unsure about the concept of God "honoring" ANYTHING we do, including the marriage of two opposite-sexed virgins. He is known to 'bless' and to 'condemn' and to 'forgive' all our many choices (and I'm probably leaving some out), but I don't know about Him "honoring" those choices. Surely some of our choices are 'honorable' and some 'dishonorable', but I believe it's the nature of the choice and not that God 'honors' the choice that determines these things.
I also don't see Jesus EVER having a conversation with any NOT His disciples where He talks plainly without riddles or questions, or parables. I don't believe He is the new Moses explaining or arguing law with scribes and pharisees. There is something in His statement that "it was not so from the beginning" and "the hardness of your hearts" that take his discourse with them out of that scenario.
Breaking a vow is a serious sin in Scripture--one that is repeatedly mentioned in multiple contexts. It doesn't much matter what the vow is--if you made it, you are bound to keep it unless released from that obligation. Still, Jesus died for our sins. I know it's not fair that He did. And though we cannot 'un-wring' a bell, we can accept forgiveness and get on with the rest of our lives.
Ya see...I've also thought about these things for a long time...only not 'topically'. I think you are unable to 'agree' with what Ray taught mostly because you have gone far beyond what he taught and so even his simple definition and explanation of the use of the word to denote a contract 'contradicts' your assumption that 'sex seals the deal' and any act of sex by a virgin "marries" them "in the eyes of God" forever (or at least as long as this life lasts).
I believe what Paul is saying is: don't wring the bell. There are consequences to our actions, and we may well have to live with them. But they are not "marriage". If some are 'greasy', it's often because they themselves are "scribes" and have neither desire nor intention to 'live godly in Christ Jesus'. They are just the other side of the coin.
Anyway. We aren't a church. We're a web-forum. And a web-forum different from most. It's all right there in the rules. Nobody is required to 'agree' with anything Ray taught. And we're not required to try to 'change your mind'.
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