Sales industry and manipulation

[Nelson Boils]

What do you think about manipulation or so called sales "techniques" that are used in the sales industry in order to get sales?

Example:
Used to work at this company and we sold some kitchen appliance for 5grand.We would though,add a grand to the price of the machine making the price 6grand.We would then use the 1grand we added as leverage in case the customer declined to buy.For instance:

Customer:"Sorry I don't have money,I'll comeback next month."
Salesman:"oh sir,if you comeback next month the price will have increased"(lying)
Customer:"Really?I'm still not too sure hey."
Salesman:"Tell you what sir.If you buy it today,I'll take 5hundred off the price,so that you don't loose out.You'll get the machine for 5500."(lying)

At this point the customer shows a bit of interest mixed with doubt and the salesman spots it.

Salesman:"Tell you what sir,this would be a great present for your wife.Cumon!
Customer:"nah my friend,tempting,but I'll comeback next month when I have money.

Now the salesman goes for the kill,coz he knows from his experience that the customer will never comeback.

Salesman:"alright you know what?I'll take off my commission off this machine and will give it to you for 5grand,and i won't get paid for it.If I don't sell this machine I'll loose my job(lying)."
Customer:"So you are taking 1grand off the machine?"
Salesman:"Yes sir."
Customer:"Alright I'll take it then."

There's no 1grand that I take off the machine.We sell it for 5grand anyway.Like I said,we use the 1grand as leverage in case the customer is a difficult one.If the customer says he will buy one even at 6grand,eventually we end up taking a grand off and come up with all sorts of stuff like "you the 10th customer 2day,so instead of 6grand,you'll get it for 5grand."So actually,there is no 1grand that we take off.

So what do you think about all these so called sales techniques as a follower of Christ?

[lilitalienboi16]

What do you think about manipulation or so called sales "techniques" that are used in the sales industry in order to get sales?

Example:
Used to work at this company and we sold some kitchen appliance for 5grand.We would though,add a grand to the price of the machine making the price 6grand.We would then use the 1grand we added as leverage in case the customer declined to buy.For instance:

Customer:"Sorry I don't have money,I'll comeback next month."
Salesman:"oh sir,if you comeback next month the price will have increased"(lying)
Customer:"Really?I'm still not too sure hey."
Salesman:"Tell you what sir.If you buy it today,I'll take 5hundred off the price,so that you don't loose out.You'll get the machine for 5500."(lying)

At this point the customer shows a bit of interest mixed with doubt and the salesman spots it.

Salesman:"Tell you what sir,this would be a great present for your wife.Cumon!
Customer:"nah my friend,tempting,but I'll comeback next month when I have money.

Now the salesman goes for the kill,coz he knows from his experience that the customer will never comeback.

Salesman:"alright you know what?I'll take off my commission off this machine and will give it to you for 5grand,and i won't get paid for it.If I don't sell this machine I'll loose my job(lying)."
Customer:"So you are taking 1grand off the machine?"
Salesman:"Yes sir."
Customer:"Alright I'll take it then."

There's no 1grand that I take off the machine.We sell it for 5grand anyway.Like I said,we use the 1grand as leverage in case the customer is a difficult one.If the customer says he will buy one even at 6grand,eventually we end up taking a grand off and come up with all sorts of stuff like "you the 10th customer 2day,so instead of 6grand,you'll get it for 5grand."So actually,there is no 1grand that we take off.

So what do you think about all these so called sales techniques as a follower of Christ?

Well carnal minded individuals know that lying is wrong. Its even one of the ten commandments. Our righteousness is to exceed that of the Pharisees who kept the ten commandments outwardly without blame if we want to enter the kingdom. With the spirit of Christ we go beyond not just lying to our neighbor and we love them as ourselves.

Exodus 20:16 (KJV) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Here is where all liars end up.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

God bless,
Alex

[Extol]

It is a smart business tactic, but I don't like it at all.

My wife and I were at a fair last month and a guy was demonstrating some kind of fancy garden hose. My wife showed mild interest and he immediately became aggressive to the point of rudeness. He said he only had five left (there were five of them boxed up on a table) and insisted there would not be any left by the end of the day. We walked away and could hardly wait to go back later. With about an hour left of the fair, we came by again, and--surprise!--there were four hoses on the table. I thought "Wow, he actually sold one" but then noticed another hose that had been opened and was on a different table in the back of his booth. It took some self-control to not comment on his superb salesmanship.

Another time, we were trying out a used car, and the salesman said "If you like it you'd better take it now. I have a guy coming to look at it at 3:00. He's flying in from out of state to look at this car." We walked away...we didn't want the out-of-state guy to spend all that money traveling only to find his car had been sold.  (The car was still there the next day.)

I sell my artwork for a living, and I get a peculiar pleasure out of being a bad businessman. I don't try to convince people to buy, even though I work at festivals where hawking is strongly encouraged. Even is someone is leaning towards making a purchase, I don't have a technique to reel them all the way in. Sometimes I'll say something like "No pressure...only buy it if you want to." I often give random discounts and give away free stuff. I work around some pretty pushy people, and I like to make up for some of that when patrons visit my shop. There are plenty of shop owners at the festivals--and in the real world--that will try to convince them to buy things they don't need. I'm probably happier than the best car salesman in the world though. 

[Nelson Boils]

We are born into this world and it teaches us how to make a living and we do it,man this world.It sure is a narrow road,very narrow.

The weird thing is that the same machine was sold for 130,00 at some stores at the mall.The company was selling it for 5000,00.Whoa!Extortion?

Thanks gents.

[Nelson Boils]

Car salesman?Now those guys I'm afraid of😁.Coz I don't even know jack abt cars.

[Gina]

It is a smart business tactic, but I don't like it at all.

My wife and I were at a fair last month and a guy was demonstrating some kind of fancy garden hose. My wife showed mild interest and he immediately became aggressive to the point of rudeness. He said he only had five left (there were five of them boxed up on a table) and insisted there would not be any left by the end of the day. We walked away and could hardly wait to go back later. With about an hour left of the fair, we came by again, and--surprise!--there were four hoses on the table. I thought "Wow, he actually sold one" but then noticed another hose that had been opened and was on a different table in the back of his booth. It took some self-control to not comment on his superb salesmanship.

Another time, we were trying out a used car, and the salesman said "If you like it you'd better take it now. I have a guy coming to look at it at 3:00. He's flying in from out of state to look at this car." We walked away...we didn't want the out-of-state guy to spend all that money traveling only to find his car had been sold.  (The car was still there the next day.)

I sell my artwork for a living, and I get a peculiar pleasure out of being a bad businessman. I don't try to convince people to buy, even though I work at festivals where hawking is strongly encouraged. Even is someone is leaning towards making a purchase, I don't have a technique to reel them all the way in. Sometimes I'll say something like "No pressure...only buy it if you want to." I often give random discounts and give away free stuff. I work around some pretty pushy people, and I like to make up for some of that when patrons visit my shop. There are plenty of shop owners at the festivals--and in the real world--that will try to convince them to buy things they don't need. I'm probably happier than the best car salesman in the world though. 

[Gina]

1 Timothy 6:10
CLV  For a root of all of the evils is the fondness for money, which some, craving, were led astray from the faith and try themselves on all sides with much pain.

Not being able to sleep at night because of embarrassment, shame, and a guilty conscience is painful!  Thank God, at the end of the "day," we will all get to the place where a peaceful sleep is priceless and preferred to having wads of cash in the bank. 

I don't advocate giving things away for free unless you feel lead to do so and can afford to.  We have to pay for the electricity.  And the truth is, if what you're selling is worth the asking price the purchaser is typically more appreciative of it.  And if it's a tangible product, the buyer typically takes better care of it.

The best products sell themselves.

[Gina]

Car salesman?Now those guys I'm afraid of😁.Coz I don't even know jack abt cars.

Always get a carfax report showing how many owners the car had and if it was in any accidents.  If possible, never buy a brand new car.  Personally, when the time comes to buy another car, I will not buy a brand new car ever again.  I would rather buy from an elderly person because they typically have fewer mileage, and have treated their cars with kid gloves and not driven them like bats outta hell.

But definitely always get a carfax report for the car's history, and these reports are free in many instances, or very inexpensive.

[lilitalienboi16]

I was reading Zecheriah 8 because Kat shared it in another thread and here I found again more about lying. God hates that.

Zech 8:14-23
14 For thus saith the Lord of hosts; As I thought to punish you, when your fathers provoked me to wrath, saith the Lord of hosts, and I repented not:
15 So again have I thought in these days to do well unto Jerusalem and to the house of Judah: fear ye not.
16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the Lord.
18 And the word of the Lord of hosts came unto me, saying,
19 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and
gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.
20 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

This is a really great chapter. God is speaking directly to us! We are the remnent.

God bless,
Alex

[lareli]

Being a good salesman is an art. An art of convincing someone that they need or want something that they don't currently have. It's an art of deception and manipulation.

The serpent in the garden was possibly the first salesman.

There's a story about a business that opened up a factory in some third world country and employed the local tribes people to work for them. These local tribes people were simple folk not having or needing material wealth. They only needed and cared about having enough to survive.. They worked for this new business until the first payday. The next day no one showed up for work. Big problem for this new business.

The big business people go to the locals to find out why no one came back to work, and the locals explain that they have no more need to work because they have 'enough'. They were content.

After some quick thinking on how to get the locals back to work the business decides to give these locals a catalog... Like a Sears or other department store catalog.. Within a month every person was back to work.

The business people enticed the locals by showing them all this 'stuff' that they never needed nor cared for... Until they saw it. They created a sense of 'want' in the locals.

I don't remember where I heard that story or if it's accurate or factual but this thread reminded me of it.

Sales is the art of moving money from someone else's pocket to your own. Some do it honestly but it's still about moving money from someone else to yourself.

[Doug]

Being a good salesman is an art. An art of convincing someone that they need or want something that they don't currently have. It's an art of deception and manipulation.

Hi Largeli,

Being in inside sales I would disagree with the above statement. Yes I promote my companies products but will not deceive or manipulate anyone to purchase. I answer questions and explain our products. If it is something that does not work for someone I will be the first to say so. There have been instances where a business has placed a large initial order and I have convinced them to get much less to try and make sure it works before a large purchase. At all times honest with customers and prospects. Also, I think there are many in sales that have the same ethics.

[lareli]

Whoa did I say that? Ya it appears so.. Sorry about that Doug. I know that statement doesn't apply to every and all situations. I probably should've left the 'deception and manipulation' part out.

What do you think about the first part of that statement? Sales is about convincing someone that they need or want something that they do not currently have?

[Doug]

Hi Largeli,

If you do a good job understanding the person's needs or wants then you can present the facts about your product and let the customer convince themselves. I sell weather stripping so it is a needed product that will pay for itself many time over. If they have an application where our product does not work well I tell them that too. This leads to life long customers that are loyal. I have customer's that have bought from me for decades and will not even entertain buying elsewhere in a very competitive market.

Everyone to one extent or another is a salesperson. Even with Bible Truths it has a lot of marketing to bring people in to visit and read.

[lareli]

Everyone to one extent or another is a salesperson. Even with Bible Truths it has a lot of marketing to bring people in to visit and read.

I agree with this statement.

Our conscience is a constant salesperson.. At every decision we make there's a sales pitch going on in our mind.. In one way or another. In this sense I guess it wouldn't be true to say that a salesperson is trying to convince you of something you need or want. It's simply trying to sell you on what the best course of action is for a particular situation. Situation after situation. Every choice we make is a calculation and that could be considered a sales pitch.

All the world is a business and all of life is a sales pitch.

[Kat]

Our conscience is a constant salesperson.. At every decision we make there's a sales pitch going on in our mind.. In one way or another. In this sense I guess it wouldn't be true to say that a salesperson is trying to convince you of something you need or want. It's simply trying to sell you on what the best course of action is for a particular situation. Situation after situation. Every choice we make is a calculation and that could be considered a sales pitch.

All the world is a business and all of life is a sales pitch.

Hi largeli,

Sales pitch - the talk that attempts to persuade someone or something, with a planned sales presentation strategy of a product or service. If the strategy is only to gain sales for the person or company, then it's a carnal/worldly approach, not really caring or concerned with the real needs of the customer.

I think Doug's approach is good though, having a useful product and helping people determine if it is right and good for them. We are living in a materialistic world and that's a problem, people are always looking to gain from others... we need our thinking to line up with how Christ wants us to live.

Luke 6:31  And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.

Mark 12:29  Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
v. 30  And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
v. 31  The second is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rick]

Hi Nelson.

I don't have a problem with those in sales or their techniques , they, like anyone else, need money too.

The problem I do see are with those who provide s service or sell things and struggle to make ends meet living from pay check to pay check and worst, falling behind.


That is sad to me and shows how corrupt the system really is. 

[Doug]

Hi Rick,

When you say that the system is corrupt what do you see as a better economic system where all prosper?

Doug

[rick]

Hi Rick,

When you say that the system is corrupt what do you see as a better economic system where all prosper?

Doug

Hi Doug,

I believe capitalism is the best economic system on planet earth however we human beings are not prefect and so there is no perfect system or perfect companies either but there are some really great companies out there.

When Christ reigns, only then will all prosper but until then we live in a world that encourages wrong doing through greed and lust of money which takes the spirit of God to end such things.

There is nothing wrong with money, it's a good thing but its how one goes about obtaining money that makes it right or wrong.

[indianabob]

Good morning friends,

Regarding economic systems; we may glean some useful information about true godly living and still stay out of politics with a little more discussion on capitalism.
What I'm thinking about is the actual need for profits in order for a society to prosper.
In God's OT system those blessed with successful farming results were taxed on the net profits of their operations and that seems to me a fair method of providing for the balanced growth of a society.

Then when human desires got into the equation, taxes were demanded on the level of accumulated property, a system which punishes savings and investment in the future.
Or am I wrong about that??

example: Two similar houses on the same street in a village, both owned free and clear of any debt.
One house built of enduring brick and stone with very nice furnishings,
the second built of higher maintenance wood and plain, simple furnishings.
The first house cost costing $300,000 to build and the second costing $200,000 to build.
All city services provided out of property taxes are the same for both homes. Same fire protection, same police protection, same street maintenance etc.

Why should the owners of the first house pay a perpetual higher property tax just because the house cost more to build? And why should the higher taxing amount continue for all time even after the houses are finished. Isn't it only because the owners of the more expensive house appear to have more money and are better able to pay a larger share of the city expenses? And isn't that based upon greed and selfishness on the part of the citizens having less invested from their earnings?

What are the examples we can present from scripture and from Ray Smith's writing to address this issue?

Thanks for any comments: Indiana bob

[Dave in Tenn]

Clearly the bible supports whatever economic system benefits me.