Can you please explain to me well of what you said that "from the time He came forth (there was no Son before He was brought forth), until now and always will be" then shifted to "everything is done through the Son"
There is but one Scripture that I believe the word "eternal" is properly translated in relation to God.
Rom 1:20 for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both
His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable; (YLT)
Another place is where it speaks of "immortality," which Strong's says means
deathlessness. Ray explains that this must be speaking of the Father, because Christ did die... though Christ certainly has immortality now. But from this we can gather that the Father is eternal.
Also at the same conference Ray shows that Christ was "the only begotten Son" (John 1:18) and the "Firstfruit" and Christ - the Son was first and foremost in this creation and "He is before all things" (Col 1:17). He came first, because it was through Him that God the Father does everything concerning this creation. He had a beginning and He is the Beginning.
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning (
Strong's G746 - a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule) of the creation of God:
Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
'WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER?' Nashville 07 Conference
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg38212.html#msg38212 -----
Now there is a scripture (1 Tim. 2:5), that I have been taking another look at. Like I say, if I make a mistake I just have no problem saying I was wrong about this or that.
1Tim 6:13 I charge thee in the sight of God(so who is the subject here - God), who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession;
v. 14 that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
v. 15 which in its own times He shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Well you say that’s got to be talking about Jesus Christ. Well maybe not. I mean God is everything that Jesus Christ is too, you know. Who is the Savior of the world? Jesus Christ? God is the Savior of the world! Yes Jesus Christ is the channel through who it comes. But God almighty is the Savior of the world. He’s also the Creator. We are actually going to find out, who actually did the creating? Christ. But who is the Creator? God the Father, okay. But we are going to see it specifically, in detail. So then it says;
1Tim 6:15 “which in its own times He shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
v. 16 who only hath immortality…”
I always thought that was speaking about Christ. But I’m thinking now, no, he’s talking about God. God only has immortality;
v. 16 “… dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see…”
Isn’t this talking about God, the Father? Well what does it matter?
Well here’s the thing. Where does it say if somebody is able to have the title God, that you have to be eternal for that? I don’t know of any.
There is no doubt about it Jesus Christ now has immortality, that means He can’t die. But we are talking about a time when God ‘only’ had immortality. Where did Christ say He got His life? He got it from the Father (John 5:26).
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[17] "For then must He often have suffered since the foundation of the world?" (Heb. 9:26).
Jesus clearly existed back then.
[18] This one might blow you away. How could God give birth, to a God? I guess you would say ‘a’ God, He is His Son, ‘a’ Son, ‘a’ God. How do you give birth to a God?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.
Now we have always heard, that we know nobody has ever seen God the Father, heard His voice, seen His shape ever. The only begotten Son, He is the One who reveals who the Father is, right. The Concordant translates that “unfolds Him.” You know, unfolds - unravels who and what the Father is to humanity. Because the first part said, nobody has ever seen God. But here is the point I want to draw attention to, “the only Begotten Son,” Son is not in some manuscripts. The Greek "Theos" [God] is in the manuscripts.
Let me give you John 1:18 the Concordant version and some others.
a. "God no one has ever seen. The only-begotten GOD Who is in the bosom of the Father, He unfolds Him" (Concordant Literal Version)
b. "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, Who is at the Father’s side, has made Him known" (New International Version).
c. "the only begotten Son, Who is God and close to the Father’s heart" (The New Testament in the Language of Today By William Beck).
d. "No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son Who is close to the Father’s heart" (New Revised Standard Version).
e. "No one has seen God at any time: An Only-Begotten God, The One existing in the bosom of the Father, He has interpreted Him" (Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible). Etc.
How about that. The only begotten God. Jesus Christ the only begotten God. Well He’s the firstfruit, right. When you read the Bible you read, “In the beginning,” but the word should be, “In beginning,” or “A beginning,” and not ‘the,’ it’s not there. “In a beginning, God - Elohim created the heavens and the earth.” Now Jesus Christ is the Firstfruit.
We just read, Heb 1:5 “For to which of the angels said He at any time, you art My Son, This day have I begotten you?” And we read over in verse 9, “Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy FELLOWS.”
But we are going to be His brothers. We have to be begotten too. Jesus Christ is the Firstfruit of them that slept(1 Cor 15 :20), the Firstfruit. James says we are a kind of Firstfruits (James 1:18). In Rev. 14, we read that the 144,000 are the Firstfruits. Do you know what it actually says in the Hebrew, in Genesis 1:1 “In Firstfruit God created the heaven and earth.”
Who is the Firstfruit? Jesus Christ!
“In Firstfruit, God created the heaven and the earth.”
“In Jesus Christ, God created the heaven and earth.”
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[7] “For though there be that are called gods (theos is plural), whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many; But to us there is but ONE GOD, the Father, OF Whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ BY Whom are all things, and we by Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).
Everything, “all things” are out 'of ' God. The word "of" in this verse is ek ex and it means--origin, from, out of, like exist (to get out of, to exist). Here is the Concordant Translation "there is One God, the Father, OUT OF WHOM ALL IS." If "all things are out of God," then certainly that includes Jesus. Where is Jesus Christ 'from'? Is He some 'thing'? He is the grandest thing of all. “All things,” are ek ex from the Father. So where did Christ come from? It says “all things” are of or out of (ek ex) God. There is only one God, the Father, and we in Him. “And one Lord Jesus Christ BY Whom” that means through or the channel of. There it is!
Everything, all knowledge, the plan of the universe is out of God. But then it is channeled through Jesus Christ. Why? He’s the Spokesman, and the creator, and the Savior, and the example to humanity. Because God can’t come down and face us, face to face. Christ in His glory, in the OT, you couldn’t face Him either, it would have blown you away. But He emptied Himself. Christ talked about "My Father, your Father; My God, your God." (John 20:17)
So everything there is, is out of God and then it is through or by Jesus Christ, that He channeled everything that there is.
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Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah/Elohim made earth and heaven.
Jehovah? Did they just slip that in there? Now in Genesis 1:1, Elohim created the heaven and the earth. In chapter 2, Jehovah/Elohim. So we have Elohim in chapter 1, now we have Jehovah/Elohim.
I know I’m going to get this really out of sequence here, but I have to go with the flow as God inspires me. So I’ll just talk about it here. I mean we are being introduced here to what is really happening. But most people just don’t see it, they just don’t get it.
So we have God created. We always think of God as being the Father, always God and Jesus Christ. But here in the OT when God spoke to Moses, it wasn’t God the Father. Because He spoke to him and no man has ever heard the Father and we already showed 18 verses, that proves Christ existed before humans existed. He was at the beginning. He is the beginning. He is the Alpha, you see. He is the beginning of the creation of God. He is the Firstfruit.
So when it says God - Elohim, who is it talking about? It’s the ‘We’ and the ‘Us.’ Elohim is the ’We’ and the ’Us.’ So it’s BOTH!
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Heb 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory (speaking of Jesus Christ) and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Okay back to verse 2.
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son(God), whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He (who? God) made the worlds;
Who is the “by whom?” Jesus Christ. But who did it? God. How? Through Christ. So who did it? They both did it, that’s why it is Elohim. “In the beginning Elohim…” God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, created the universe. It was out of God, through His Son. Both. They are both the One God. Well why does it introduce, here in chapter 2, that the heaven and the earth was created by Jehovah/Elohim? Because it’s letting us know who the Son is, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and all that.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat