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Turning the other cheek
Nelson Boils:
Huh?There was no choice...really Ian?
Thanks 7.
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Nelson Boils on June 24, 2015, 12:04:21 PM ---Huh?There was no choice...really Ian?
Thanks 7.
--- End quote ---
YES.... REALLY & TRULY ... AGAINST HIS WILL ,HE WAS FORCED
Dave in Tenn:
No...Not truly and really. He was not forced.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3633.msg27129.html#msg27129
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on June 25, 2015, 09:07:10 AM ---No...Not truly and really. He was not forced.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3633.msg27129.html#msg27129
--- End quote ---
I believe he was "Truly" [forced] i suppose moved or empowered would be a good or better fit, forced sounds to harsh ... like ...as if death isn't,
"Yes really" was a response to Boils "really Ian"
@ Boils
according to more than 5 witnesses... underlines mine, there are many more
Isa 53:10 yet Yahweh desires to crush Him, and He causes Him to be wounded. Should you place His soul for a guilt approach, He shall see a seed. He shall lengthen His days, and the desire of Yahweh shall prosper in His hand."
Luk 22:42 saying, "Father, if it is Thy intention, carry aside this cup from Me. However, not My will, but Thine, be done!"
Psa 69:26 As for You, they persecute those whom You have smitten, And they are recounting the pain of those wounded by You."
Act 9:16 for I shall be intimating to him how much he must be suffering for My name's sake."
Rom 8:32 Surely, He Who spares not His own Son, but gives Him up for us all, how shall He not, together with Him, also, be graciously granting us all?
Joh 16:2 for they will be putting you out of the synagogues; but coming is the hour that everyone who is killing you should suppose he is offering divine service to God.
Exo 12:6 And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. They will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours.
(Joh 10:18) No one is taking it away from Me, but I am laying it down of Myself. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to get it again. This precept I got from My Father."
Don't sound like a choice or free will, but rather The Father getting His way, always...
So it is and will be, with the rest of His children too.
Kat:
Ian, you do not understand the concept of "I do nothing of Myself" (John 8:28). Christ is under the Father's authority now and always has been and will be. The Father is the power that works through Jesus Christ... "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).
John 12:49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
What the Father required of Christ, was necessary that 'God' experience what we have to. You used the Isaiah 53 reference that the Concordant states "crushed" Him, as in wrath... that is the totally wrong concept, but He certainly was "bruised" for us in crucifixion.
The struggle Jesus went through in the garden to "let this cup pass" was certainly not in defiance of the Father's will upon Him, but it showed He was fully human and cringed at what was about to happen to Him and turned to the only One that could help Him get through it all.
John 10:17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
v. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."
You conveniently left these verses out of your list. Can you not believe Jesus when He said "no one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself"? As Ray had taught that means He knew what He would have to face and He volunteered to do it and to say He was forced is opposite, a contradiction, an oxymoron, it can't be both ways.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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