Hi Rick,
This is a complex topic, there are no simple answers. But I believe all of this discussion has brought out some good points to be considered and has been helpful.
Here are a few more places Ray spoke on this, that may help you find a few more pieces of the puzzle. And I found what Alex was speaking of where Ray spoke of an experience he had, that was from the '07 Nashville conference 'WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER?' It's the last one down.
http://bible-truths.com/email9.htm#wrestle ----------------------
[Ray Replies]
Dear Jim:
Well, just like almost everything else Christians adopt as truth, their knowledge of demons and spirits is equally eschew. First, Jim, always remember the basics:
"...for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials" (Eph. 6:12).
So it is NOT the physical that is our biggest problem (flesh and blood), being overweight, etc.
Next we must understand that demons are FALSE DOCTRINES -- "doctrines of demons" Paul calls them. So anything that would influence us to believe in, follow, or be persuaded by any such things are demons influences.
So when we speak of "anger" we are in the realm of the spirit. James says, "Whosoever is ANGRY with his brother is a MURDERER"! WOW! "Be angry and SIN NOT -- do not let the sun go down upon your ANGER" is another.
So being overweight and having uncontrolled anger are two totally different things. Being overweight is no more a sin than having flat feet. There are thousands of things in the biological makeup of our bodies over which we have and nor can we have control. If one is a total glutton, that is a lust of the flesh, but MANY overweight people eat very little for their size. But anger, that's different. Anger comes from within the man and it can cause one to SIN.
Now then, what do we do with the demons of anger, lust, and other aberrant behavior, cast them out? Well, if all we had to do was "cast them out," we wouldn't have to "wrestle" with them, would we?
Satan and his demons have their role in God's creation. God Himself has even commissioned LYING spirits to go out and do their dirty work (I Kings 22:22). So demons are real, they are here, and they will be around for a long time.
How should we handle them -- ask the preacher to cast them all out so that we are clean and will never be bothered in any spiritual way again, not to mention having a perfect size body? No, here's what God tells us we should do after telling us that we DO WRESTLE against these forces:
"Therefore take up the panoply [armor] of God that you may be enabled to WITHSTAND in the wicked day, and having effected all, to STAND. STAND, then, girded about your loins with TRUTH [remember I said demons are FALSE doctrines], with the cuirass of righteousness put on, and your feet sandaled with the readiness of the evangel [gospel] of peace; with all taking up the large shield of FAITH, by which you WILL BE ABLE TO EXTINGUISH ALL THE FIERY ARROWS OF THE WICKED ONE."
So the truth is that we continue to wrestle and do battle with them -- it is good for us to do so, it MAKES US STRONG in the TRUTH and in our reliance of God's spiritual armor to protect us.
Hope that helps your understanding a little better.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html -------------------------------------
"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."
Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).
God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.
Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,
"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).
Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2600.0.html -------------
ALL of God's created celestial beings are "messengers." Angel means messenger. From that Perspective, Jesus is a Messenger (Mal. 3:1-2). If these messengers are bad, we might refer to them as devils, demons, OR adversaries, but they are STILL MESSENGERS.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg37590.html#msg37590 ---
Somebody ask me last week about demons. There really are these things. I’ve had a little experience and I know some of them by name.
My friend, Eliot from Brooklyn, we went to college together. I was living in Mobile at the time, I had moved away for 20 years, then came back. We were going to meet at Mt. Pocono, because there was a large church up there. We were in Worldwide and they had a festival up there, so I was going to meet Eliot there. It was one of those spooky nights. By the time the last service was over and with the fellowshipping. The sun was going down, it got dark early and it was raining and foggy.
One of the ministers came up to Eliot and me and ask us to come to a side room, ‘We have a little problem.’ We said okay, we’ll help and went with him. So in the room there was about 5 of us and there was this women. She was about 75 years old, with gray hair, a little on the hefty side. She was acting strange. So we ask what was going on, and he said, ‘well we think Anne is having a problem.’ So we were gathered around and Anne was looking a little strange, she would snarl her face up and say, ‘I know who you are.’ This was a 75 year old woman, with gray hair and she is talking like a monster, you know. We said, okay we know what we got here. These things would take her over and she would get violent and wanted to attack us. There were five strong men, in our 30’s trying to hold her down.
This was a 75 year old lady, each of us had one arm one leg, she was just violent. We would ask, ‘who are you?’ She would just snarl and then she would give us a name. We didn’t know, so we would just command these things to come out, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then she would settle down and be like, ‘what are you all doing?’ We’d say, well you’re not feeling to good Anne, ‘well, what’s wrong?’ You are just not feeling good right now. Then her face would snarl up and she would start yelling at us. We would say, who are you? It’s kind of comical now, I don’t think that demons are smart. I remember that at one point there was one, I did know them all, but I started to forget them. But this one was named Bok, and we cast out Bok. Then we cast out a bunch of others. So one after the other, they would just take her and we’d cast them out, then she would just settle down and be fine. She would say, ‘what’s wrong, why am I on the floor?’ She didn’t know what was happening. We would ask each one’s name and it was a different demon. One time I ask who are you, and it said ‘Bouk,’ we said wait a minute we just cast you out, it said, ‘no, that was Bok, I’m Bouk.’ I’m serious.
We were there for an hour or two, casting out demons. Some of them just would not come out, it said, ‘the master would be very angry.’ We ask who is the master, it said, ‘ Beelzebub is the master.’ They didn’t want to come out. Then she would settle down for a while. Then this one, we said who are you, it said ‘no’ we said we command you in the name of Jesus Christ what is your name, ‘no’ we said we command you, you have to tell us, ‘my name is no.’ She would settle down and then another would take her over and she would want to attack us and kill us. I tell you by the time we were done, it was enervating. We knew we were in a different realm. We ask them questions and we ask them about stuff, we knew about to see if they knew about it. So this stuff is real. This is not fairy land or the wizard of Oz, this stuff really does exist. They're spirits in the air.
It says in Hebrews you better watch how you treat strangers, because you might be entertaining an angel unaware, you know. Now I don’t know if a demon can manifest themselves as human. But I don’t see any examples of that.
I only tell you these things so you will understand that it is bizarre. All this stuff, it’s real. It’s real, because we are here. Many times I’ve said if I wasn’t here, I just wouldn’t believe any of this.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat