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Did some demons escape the pit ?
lilitalienboi16:
Gina,
It's not worth arguing with you but for the sake of those less learned I will try and make this as concise and to the point as possible.
Ray makes it abundantly clear that the Cherub and King of Tyre are two different beings.
Ez 28:14 "On the day you were created, I placed you [King of Tyre] beside the kherubs on the sacred hill of God; you walked amid the flashing thunder-stones" (A New Translations by James Moffatt)
So pay attention, there are two beings here in similar location. Now The King of Tyre is expelled from the mountain of God while the Cherub is cast out from among the fiery stones.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee [King of Tyre] as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Maybe another translation will help?
Ezekiel 28:14 "...So I expelled you in disgrace from the mountain of God, and banished you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones." Holman
Ezekiel 28:14 "...So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones." New International Version
You even said yourself the King of Tyre is not the Cherub so why can't you see what is happening to the king of tyre and the guardian cherub?
The passage is obscure and variation in translations exist but the vast majority of translations agree that the King of Tyre is expelled from God's mountain and the Cherub is 'destroyed' or 'removed' from among the fiery stones. I believe one translation shows the Cherub as doing the driving out but that is one of many who show the complete opposite.
Ezekiel 28:16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire. (RSV)
In Christ,
Alex
Gina:
Hi, Rick
The big take away from all of this is: Don't follow after the lawlessness and wickedness of others. Don't worry about where those demons are. If you are doing what Peter said to do, adding to your faith, you will never fall.
Gina:
.... In case it got buried, here's what Peter is saying:
2 Pet. 1
5 .... make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you PRACTICE (just practice) these qualities (instead of practicing evil) you will NEVER fall.
What's more fascinating to you, trying to figure out where the demons are? Or what Peter says to do:
What Peter is saying is that when we practice these qualities, just practicing them, you will NEVER FALL. WOW!
So, just by PRACTICING these qualities, we will NEVER fall.
Jesus' words were so true: Learn of me because I'm humble. My yoke is easy and my burden is light. How hard can it be to just practice these things?
rick:
Thanks Gina,
There are some great answers here, I clearly see in me much needs to be unlearned. I understand now that demons are false doctrines also they can be false teachers as well as false prophets
Christendom and movies from Hollywood has made a mockery of my understanding with their demons.
Hello Kat,
Your input which I copied and pasted below versifies what Gina is also suggesting is a great confirmation for me and also anyone else who’s understanding is inaccurate about demons as mine was.
The "angels of God" (Matt 25:31) and the "angels of the Devil" (Matt. 25:31) are the same Greek word, #32, 'angelos,' and the definition of this Greek word is: 'an angel, messenger, or pastor.' (Strong's Greek Dictionary). Nowhere is this word defined as "a demon.
The Devil's angels are the Devil's ministers, and they are mortal men
Next we must understand that demons are FALSE DOCTRINES -- "doctrines of demons" Paul calls them. So anything that would influence us to believe in, follow, or be persuaded by any such things are demons influences.
Alex
Your right to say ( I think there is a lot in the answers provided here )
.
Kat gave the Greek word meaning word # 32 definition ( Greek word, #32, 'angelos,' and the definition of this Greek word is: 'an angel, messenger, or pastor ) now that much has been cleared up for me but I find I’m still confused about Luk 8:27 when I read this part of the verse ( As Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a man from the town who had demons in him )
from what I’m understanding in this thread and the great replies I received and then applied this understanding to Luk 8: 27 that verse would render ( Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a man from the town who had false information in him ) or if I use angle then it would render ( Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a man from the town who had angles in him )
You see my problem with either rendering, part of my understanding is still lacking here. ???
lilitalienboi16:
Hi Rick,
I feel like you're trading one extreme perspective for another. Yes, demons can be false doctrines, but they aren't only false doctrins. Ray once said that he had exercised out seven demons from a woman with the help of other church goers. The demons weren't very clever as they had simple names like, "Bok, Boook" etc... I can't find the specific audio where he goes into detail on that exercosim but he does reference it in an email below briefly.
Ray believes there are demons (and not just as doctrine!) and mentions them numerous times. Here's a few emails from Ray.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2540.0.html -------
Dear Michelle:
The only spirits "roaming around" are demons, not the spirits of DEAD people.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2600.0.html ----
Dear Brenda:
ALL of God's created celestial beings are "messengers." Angel means messenger. From that Perspective, Jesus is a Messenger (Mal. 3:1-2). If these messengers are bad, we might refer to them as devils, demons, OR adversaries, but they are STILL MESSENGERS.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1910.0.html -------
Dear Chris:
There have been probably 5 to 10 thousand volumes written on demons and exorcism. It is not likely that I can explain this subject in five to ten sentences.
There is "possession" and there is "obsession." Many people are obsessed with demons and evil spirits rather than being actually possessed and totally out of control mentally.
Catholic exorcism is more superstition than Scriptural. Protestant ministers try to shout and SCREAM them out of people. I had only a few personal experiences with people who were demonized. With one elderly woman we prayed and one by one Jesus casted out a half dozen or so demons--each with his own name, I might add.
The truth is that we "wrestle against such spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph. 6:12). It is part of our Christian walk of faith.
The world is filled with "spirits of antichrist." Many Christians worship these spirits. I cast out dozens and dozens of these spirits of antichrist on our bible-truth.com site, and many pastors, theologians, and Christians hate and despise me for doing it. They love these evil spirits. But always remember, that if you have the Spirit of God in you, then:
"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world" (I John 4:3-4).
God be with you,
Ray
------------------------------------
I can think of scriptural more examples of things we would consider demons that are certainly not pastors or false doctrines. Remember the messenger from satan that beat paul over the head with 'inordinate blows?'
You need to try and be a bit more fluid in your understanding and apply all you've learned to all of scripture. Everything is one. Don't be so rigid and just remember some basic truths. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established, the sum of God's Word is truth, and no verse is at all becoming its own interpretation. Most importantly, Remember, By God's spirit alone and only can any of this be understood by anyone. Obedience is key!
God bless,
Alex
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