Love

[lauriellen]

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Corinthians 13:1-3
Doesn't this just sum it all up? I get so weary of all the theological wrangling and wrestling, doctrinal debating and comparing of our understanding against our neighbor's. I SEE how knowledge puffs up and causes pride. I SEE how working our way up the ladder only makes us look down on others.
What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. It is the motivation of our heart that is most important imho. And even my heart's motivation I believe is also of God......He is completely sovereign.
Wrant over.

[lilitalienboi16]

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Corinthians 13:1-3
Doesn't this just sum it all up? I get so weary of all the theological wrangling and wrestling, doctrinal debating and comparing of our understanding against our neighbor's. I SEE how knowledge puffs up and causes pride. I SEE how working our way up the ladder only makes us look down on others.
What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. It is the motivation of our heart that is most important imho. And even my heart's motivation I believe is also of God......He is completely sovereign.
Wrant over.

Hi Lauriellen,

You are absolutely correct that all the knowledge in the world means nothing if we don't have love. The apostles stressed this in saying that faith without good works is dead. Its why you will know those who are Christ's by their fruit, being mindful of what the fruits of the spirit are (not works of the flesh).

Knowledge can very easily puff us up and cause pride. That is perhaps why God gives us understanding in small steps, to keep us humble, but of course without God's power we will become puffed up and it may be safe to say that many do. Ray once said that we all want to get spiritually drunk by knowing everything at once but friend's dont let friend's drink and drive. Similarly, God doesn't let us get spiritually drunk. Small steps.

You are blessed to understand that all is of God but how did you come across this understand?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Was it not the foolishness you speak of that was done through ray to bring you to this marvelous revelation of God that you now cherish so dearly? I know that it was for me. God has a plan and He is working it out.  I don't feel pressured to respond to any posts here but I do share when inspired by God to write my responces. Many times I learn a lot from the discussions here and I feel I would be the poorer without them.

Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Luke 1:1-4
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

I certainly don't waste my time trying to convince anyone still in babylon unless it is the appointed time where they have come to me and asked me for the reason of my hope. I know in the end that God will remove the viel from off of every face.

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

John 21:22-23 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

So we are blessed to know the things we do and if others come seeking and God leads us to share then we do.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

1 Thes 5 11-28
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
25 Brethren, pray for us.
26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.
27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

God bless,
Alex

[lauriellen]

thank you Alex. I have nothing, NOTHING, physical or spiritual, that I have not received. I can give nothing to God that He hasn't first given to me. I am completely and totally the work of His hands, as we ALL are, regardless if we realize it or not. I am thankful for what little God has given me to understand. Sure, I would love to understand more. All in His time. It's just that I 'see' a spirit working in people sometimes that I don't like.....it makes me sad. A puffed up, adversarial, contentious tone. I guess there is a purpose.......It would be lovely to be able to discuss and bounce ideas and share without THAT spirit.

[lilitalienboi16]

thank you Alex. I have nothing, NOTHING, physical or spiritual, that I have not received. I can give nothing to God that He hasn't first given to me. I am completely and totally the work of His hands, as we ALL are, regardless if we realize it or not. I am thankful for what little God has given me to understand. Sure, I would love to understand more. All in His time. It's just that I 'see' a spirit working in people sometimes that I don't like.....it makes me sad. A puffed up, adversarial, contentious tone. I guess there is a purpose.......It would be lovely to be able to discuss and bounce ideas and share without THAT spirit.

I know the feeling dear sister. I have faltered on many occasions myself. To my shame. We are all in the hand's of the Potter. He has promised that He will keep those that are His and that He rules in His church. He is The King of peace. There is was and will be peace in God's church. Relatively speaking, we all strive to enter into His rest--into that peace that exists within His flock. What a wonderful marvelous place it is.

Everything beyond the walls of His city is a very sad place but one day the world will know this King of peace. That day can't come soon enough.

I too wish I could understand more... I wish the most to be more obedient to Christ. That's the hardest thing is knowing I'm not at all where one day God promises the world will be. How I yearn for His kingdom to be established in the earth.

God bless,
Alex

[Kat]

Thanks lauriellen, it's good to be reminded of what God expects from us and that is to show one another love, less we do more harm than good.

Mark 9:42  "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.

Paul was always so good at telling believers how they should live.

Eph 4:1  I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
v. 2  with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
v. 3  endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
v. 4  There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
v. 5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
v. 6  one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
v. 7  But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.

Eph 4:22  that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
v. 23  and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
v. 24  and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
v. 25  Therefore, putting away lying, "let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
v. 26  "Be angry and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
v. 27  nor give place to the devil.

Eph 4:29  Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
v. 30  And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
v. 31  Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
v. 32  Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Much food for thought here.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[John from Kentucky]

It is true that love is the most important fruit of God's Spirit.

And it is true that most of us are fat, dumb, and stupid when God calls us and works with us.

However, we are not to remain that way.  The Scriptures tell us we must grow in grace and knowledge of God.

Many think that they are full of love and humble, and that knowledge of God's ways are not that important.

Many can quote that one Scripture as to how knowledge can puff one up, which is true.

However, knowledge of God's ways are absolutely essential.  And sometimes love is expressed in a way that the Many do not understand.  The Many believe love is speaking soft words and agreeing with everyone.

Below is an email where Ray leans into a tenderfoot lacking understanding.

By my account Ray quotes eighteen (18) Scriptures concerning the importance to God of knowledge.  Those with ears to hear, let them hear.



Knowledge
« on: February 23, 2008, 07:23:59 PM »
Professing themselves as wise, they became as fools. You do error in the scripture. I pray that God will open your eyes to the simplicity of His Word. It is not a logical belief system, but a personal relationship founded on faith. It is not about "knowledge" but about a relationship. Paul did not say I know what I believe, but in "who" I believe. I would not even know where to begin to refute the errors you have made.

        Grace and Peace in Christ



        Dear Ronald:  So the Scriptures are not about "knowledge," you say? You remind me of the foolishness of Job:

        "Who is this [his name is Ronald] that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" (Job 38:2)

        "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee..." (Hos. 4:6).

        Paul knew a little bit about "knowledge" also:

        "And even as they did not like to retain God in their KNOWLEDGE, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Rom. 1:28).

        "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and KNOWLEDGE of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" (Rom. 11:33).

        "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the KNOWLEDGE of God: I speak this to your shame" (I Cor. 15:34).

        "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the KNOWLEDGE of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (II Cor. 4:6).

        "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the KNOWLEDGE of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (II Cor. 105).

        "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the KNOWLEDGE of HIM" (Eph. 1:17).

        "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my KNOWLEDGE in the mystery of Christ" (Eph. 3:4).

        "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph. 4:13).

        "And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in KNOWLEDGE  and in all judgmen" (Phil. 1:9).

        "That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the KNOWLEDGE of God" (Col. 1:10).

        "In Whom [Jesus Christ]are hid all the treasures of wisdom and KNOWLEDGE" (Col. 2:3).

        "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in KNOWLEDGE after the image of Him that created him" (Col. 3:10).

        "God our Saviour;  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:4).

        "Ever learning, and never able to come to THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (II Tim. 3:7).

        And this one here, Ronald is really rather important (especially in your case):

        "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there remaineth NO MORE sacrifice for sins. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (hEB. 10:26:27).

        You close with "grace and peace," Ronald, but you have not a clue as what channel it comes:

        "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, and of Jesus our Lord" (II Pet. 1:2).

        For sure you wouldn't know where to begin to point out my errors. So "its not about KNOWLEDGE," you say.  You need to be a little more careful who you call a "fool," Ronald!

        God be with you,

        Ray

[Mike Gagne]

I will just say this now, it seems to be that love is not a lot of what goes on in this forum. When people cut each other up with scriptures and call names and assume all kinds of stuff, and they don't pay attention to what has been written and are sarcastic to each other, well I can get that out in the world all day long. You people here think your all the elect, I can only say this

  For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

In Christ Mike

[Dave in Tenn]

I appreciate Laurie's post because it gives an opportunity to stop and think about my own actions.  It's not always those pesky other people who are making a mess.  And even if some do from time to time, He told me to get the beam out of my own eye first. 

If you're blameless, be blameless.

I reckon if Paul had no reason to write what Kat posted, he wouldn't have done so.  That at least tells me 'we' are in the congregation if what he says applies to us.  He didn't write that so we could beat up the world.  If he didn't write them for me, I'm not even called, much less chosen.   

[lauriellen]

I had to re-read my original post just to make sure, but was pretty sure I did not say that knowledge was not important, but the scripture is saying that knowledge (or works or tongues, etc) WITHOUT love would be nothing (Dr. Kennedy-that Ray spoke of so much- comes to mind). I am all about gaining as much understanding as I can, but if my heart is cold and snarky, I am just like the majority of the judgmental self righteous religious.
I guess I am just bone-tired and war-weary There is SO much going on in my life, and SO much I don't understand, and it is frustrating to think I might not get the understanding I desire in this life.....I haven't found ANY forum or group or church that agrees on every point, and where  they disagree, it usually gets ugly fast. I agree with MiKe, I can't stand to see people being so hateful to each other, ESPECIALLY believers....I LOVED the scriptures posted by Kat, and wholeheartedly think that THAT is the spirit that should be flowing thru us, thru this forum and thru all true believers. I think we will always (in this life anyway) disagree on some points, but we should be able to heartily and enthusiastically discuss our views with love and gentleness, patience and peace. Alex, I am so in agreement with you, my wholehearted constant prayer is THY KINGDOM COME.....it can't be soon enough.

[John from Kentucky]

I will just say this now, it seems to be that love is not a lot of what goes on in this forum. When people cut each other up with scriptures and call names and assume all kinds of stuff, and they don't pay attention to what has been written and are sarcastic to each other, well I can get that out in the world all day long. You people here think your all the elect, I can only say this

  For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

In Christ Mike

In Christ?  Really?  For once, I'll shut up, except for the link I attached below.

Jesus could be tough.  And very sarcastic when needed.  He had bark on him, as many would say from Kentucky.

Read the below post, for a Jesus many don't know.


http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

[John from Kentucky]

I had to re-read my original post just to make sure, but was pretty sure I did not say that knowledge was not important, but the scripture is saying that knowledge (or works or tongues, etc) WITHOUT love would be nothing (Dr. Kennedy-that Ray spoke of so much- comes to mind). I am all about gaining as much understanding as I can, but if my heart is cold and snarky, I am just like the majority of the judgmental self righteous religious.
I guess I am just bone-tired and war-weary There is SO much going on in my life, and SO much I don't understand, and it is frustrating to think I might not get the understanding I desire in this life.....I haven't found ANY forum or group or church that agrees on every point, and where  they disagree, it usually gets ugly fast. I agree with MiKe, I can't stand to see people being so hateful to each other, ESPECIALLY believers....I LOVED the scriptures posted by Kat, and wholeheartedly think that THAT is the spirit that should be flowing thru us, thru this forum and thru all true believers. I think we will always (in this life anyway) disagree on some points, but we should be able to heartily and enthusiastically discuss our views with love and gentleness, patience and peace. Alex, I am so in agreement with you, my wholehearted constant prayer is THY KINGDOM COME.....it can't be soon enough.

Lauriellen,

You will make it.  Jesus will give you rest and peace.  I sense you have a good heart with the aid of the Spirit.

Sorry if I caused you any consternation.  My words were not directly aimed at you but the topic raised.

JFK, the harmless little furball 

[Mike Gagne]

Yes John,  you can say what ever you want , don't shut your mouth now.

I know who I am, and you don't like that!  This post of yours is a excellent example of what I said.

There is certainly not a lot of this...


1Co 13:4  Love has long patience,( certainly not a lot here ) is kind;( well it can get right down to name calling here) love is not emulous of others ; ( that says a lot ) love is not insolent and rash,( here it is ) is not puffed up, ( puffed up? )  Anyhow if it burns John then it must be for you....

In Christ, And yes John its all in Christ. 

[Joel]

Thanks Lauriellen for provoking us to Love, and to good works.
I'm adding a few verses in 1st Corinthians 13 where you left off;
13:4-Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
    5-Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
    6-Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
    7-Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

May the LORD bless all of the forum's guest, and members.

Joel

[Mike Gagne]

Thanks Lauriellen for provoking us to Love, and to good works.
I'm adding a few verses in 1st Corinthians 13 where you left off;
13:4-Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
    5-Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
    6-Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
    7-Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

May the LORD bless all of the forum's guest, and members.

Joel

Thank you Joel and may the Lord bless you as well.

[Mike Gagne]

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Corinthians 13:1-3
Doesn't this just sum it all up? I get so weary of all the theological wrangling and wrestling, doctrinal debating and comparing of our understanding against our neighbor's. I SEE how knowledge puffs up and causes pride. I SEE how working our way up the ladder only makes us look down on others.
What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. It is the motivation of our heart that is most important imho. And even my heart's motivation I believe is also of God......He is completely sovereign.
Wrant over.

Thanks Lauriellen, How true!

[lauriellen]

Thanks JFK. I didn't take your comment as a personal attack. I know that your comments can come across as a little harsh at times, but I have always (and do) highly respected what you have to say....I know your motivation is a love of truth...and sometimes love IS tuff. 

[John from Kentucky]

Thanks JFK. I didn't take your comment as a personal attack. I know that your comments can come across as a little harsh at times, but I have always (and do) highly respected what you have to say....I know your motivation is a love of truth...and sometimes love IS tuff. 

Thanks Lauriellen for your kind words.  It warms my heart.  Maybe there is some hope for me after all.    At least there is no ever burning hell fire I have to worry about.

May you have a good day.

[Kat]

Well I will say I have come to appreciate this forum a great deal, because I feel I'm among believers when I come here. Yes we have a varied background of experiences that we draw from and also where we are in our studies on these truths varies. But we're all on the same path of seeking this truth, just at different places along it. I feel it is a privilege to be able to discuss these thing among like minded people and I am glad to help any newbies with the basics, but I certainly like to get into the deeper things as well.

God did not take the believers He is teaching off to a monastery in a wilderness some where... no, we are all living right in the world and for good reason, it is our training ground. We are trying to learn how to be separate from the world, while still in it. So if God called us all here so we can support one another in this difficult task, then it is good to help one another and we all have our own way of doing that.

I try to realize that this forum sort of represents the kingdom... I mean it is the grouping together of God's people and I believe this may very well be the only place in the world like this. We need to be able to get along here, if we are to work together in the kingdom, isn't this a foreshadow that? Since we are united together by this truth, we should give each other the benefit of the doubt, it's so easy to misunderstand what somebody is trying to say or be misunderstood as well, so we need patience with one another. If somebody is weak in one area of understanding... well we all have to learn and grow.  I mean I realize looking back that I have moved on to a better understanding on so many or actually on every thing. But it's been a process of learning going through many steps to build a better understanding, this is how the precept upon precept works I'm thinking. I feel and we all should think of this as a "labor of love" we are participating in here.

Heb 6:9  But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
v. 10  For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Extol]

Well I will say I have come to appreciate this forum a great deal, I feel I'm among believers when I come here. Yes we are have a varied background of experiences that we draw from and where we are in our studies on these truths. We're all on the same path of seeking this truth, just at different places along it. I feel it is a privilege to be able to discuss these thing among like minded people and I am glad to help some newbies with the basics, but I certainly like to get into the deeper things as well.

God did not take the believers He is teaching off to a monastery in a wilderness some where... no we are all living right in the world and for good reason, it is our training ground. We are trying to learn how to be separate from the world, while still in it. So if God called us all here so we can support one another in this difficult task, then it is good to help and we all have our own way of doing that.

I try to realize that this forum sort of represents the kingdom... I mean it is the grouping together of God's people and I believe this may very well be the only place in the world like this. We need to be able to get along here, if we are to work together in the kingdom. Because we are united together by this truth and should give each other the benefit of the doubt, it's so easy to misunderstand what somebody is saying or be misunderstood, so we need patience with one another. If somebody is weak in one area of understanding... well we all have to grow,  I mean I realize looking back that I have moved on to a better understanding on so many things. But it's been a process of understanding going through many steps to build a better understanding, this is how the precept upon precept works I'm thinking. I feel and we all should think of this as a "labor of love" we are participating in here.

Heb 6:9  But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
v. 10  For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thanks for this great reminder, Kat.

A while back I was listening to a lecture and the professor said "It's important to remember you didn't marry yourself. You married a different, unique, individual person." This struck a chord with me, because it's easy to forget that sometimes. I want my wife to eat healthy like I do, I want her to like the same kind of movies, have the same disposition, believe the same things, etc. But I have to remember she is a different person---she comes from a different background, had a very different childhood than I did, and has different tastes. It's not my job to make her into another me. Sometimes it's good for couples to fight, because the arguments can produce good results, and make us see and appreciate that we are different.

I like to think it is like that here on the forum too. There are a lot of different backgrounds here. Furthermore, a lot of us have not met each other in person, and words on a computer screen are not always read in the tone that the author intended. I hope the so-called bickering here is us learning to see and appreciate the fact that we are different, and are at different places on the path to the Truth. We may be puny and insignificant, but God is big enough to use the bickering for our own good.

[Mike Gagne]

I Agree Kat, your Right!  There is no other place in the world like this, and we should treat each other as such!

Have a blessed day everyone In CHRIST.