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Author Topic: Kinda confused?  (Read 1371 times)

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Kinda confused?
« on: June 23, 2015, 04:54:00 PM »

Did Jesus voluntarily die for our sins or did God send him to die for our sins or both (if possible)?


  • Guest
Re: Kinda confused?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2015, 10:24:07 PM »

Here is where Ray spoke on this at a conference, from the transcript 'How did Jesus Do "The Father's Will".',3633.msg27129.html#msg27129 ---

Phil. 2: 7-8 ďBut He  made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made [emptied Himself of His glory and privileges] in the likeness of men. Being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also has high exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name.Ē

John 3:16  For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting (Eonian) life."

Why did God do that? Why did Christ volunteer to go to the cross? Well Iíve been told all my life that He died for my sins. But did He have to? Did He have to die for our sins? Is there no way to pardon sins, out of His love and mercy? Couldnít He say, okay you have sinned, but I pardon you. After all what is grace. 

Eph 2:8  ďFor by grace you have been saved through faith.Ē 

Grace will save you, so why die? Did Christ have to die? Why did God want to die? Why would God want to become a man? When I say God Iím talking about Jehovah now, Jesus Christ. Did the Father Ďmakeí His Son Jesus die? Did He Ďtakeí His Sonís life? NO! 

John 10:17  For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it up again.
v. 18  No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father."

Jesus VOLUNTEERED HIS LIFE for us !!! While we were yet sinners (Rom. 5:08).

What the law couldnít do and we couldnít do, CHRIST DID (Rom. 8:3).

We must experience sin before we can be saved from it! How did Elohim come to a know of ďgood and evil?Ē We arenít told.

Why did God want to become a man and die? Well there are a number of reasons. Jesus Christ is the First fruit, He is the Word, He is the Creator of all and so on. He made this human race and He gave them (all with the direction of the Father -Elohim) an experience of evil, which is not a nice thing. God did not say there is nothing wrong with evil, just sit back and enjoy it, He doesnít talk like that. 

Eze 33:11  ďSay to them:  As I live, says the Lord Jehovah,  I have no delight in the death of the wicked,Ē

God made us, He put us through it, but we will never in all eternity, be able to have a one-upmanship over God, by saying you donít know what itís like. Itís already decided. First of all, God gave up His Son, and for any of you that are parents, it is harder to give up a son than it is to give up yourself.

Now Christ is the actual Creator, He reduced Himself down to the very humans He made, to be just like them. Except He had the spirit of God. So He came down to show us how to live as a human being, under all duress, stress, and mess. He did it humbly and perfectly. So He set us an example and He could have stopped there. He could say I went through hunger, they tried to throw me off cliffs, they slapped Me, they mocked Me, they put spears in My side and I could have zapped them in a second. I let them do that for 33 years and never fought back, and never had a evil thought against them. 

He showed you how to live and He could have quite. But after He did all that, He said now Iím going to die for you, because I love you. Think about it, He didnít have to die, nobody took His life. He said I lay down My life and ďno one takes it from Me,Ē (John 10:18).

He died to prove to us that He loves us. He didnít have to, He just did it. So we would know that He loves us. We canít say, but our Creator had it made in the shade, no. He came down and was under the same temptations, under the same rules and regulations and then He went to the cross and died, voluntarily. He says in effect, if that doesnít show that I love you, I donít know what else I can do.

So thatís what He did and thatís why He died, because He loved us and He wanted to prove it. So He died for our sins. God excepted that for a sacrifice, but it was a voluntary sacrifice. It wouldnít have needed to be done, they did it that way, but it didnít need to be done that way. They (Israelites) were forgiven for a whole year, just by the sprinkling of a goatís blood, in the Holy place on the Day of Pentecost.

But Christ wanted to prove to the human race that He was every bit as good of a man, as any other man was. He doesnít sit in His ivory tower telling us how great He is. He did it as a man. God became a man and died, because He loves His creation and He wanted us to know He loves us. This is awesome stuff. Itís like a fairytale from Greek mythology, but itís not, it the Bible.

So He puts us through hell to get us in His family. Itís necessary to go through this pain and suffering and evil, to become holy, righteous, and good, you have to go through it.

mercy, peace and love


  • Guest
Re: Kinda confused?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2015, 03:51:39 PM »

Thanks very much. This was very helpful
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