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Author Topic: A very good point concerning universal salvation  (Read 2294 times)

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repottinger

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A very good point concerning universal salvation
« on: June 25, 2015, 05:39:14 PM »

Hello all,
I thought that I might share a really excellent insight that I found on another site while searching the web for verses dealing with the salvation of all a few months ago. It’s in regard to Colossians 1:15-20 (here from the AKJV):

15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The authors point out that these verses “are constructed in such a way that they leave absolutely no room for any doubt whatsoever that the word all can only mean all, without any exceptions,” and that the “Apostle Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, repeats the word all seven times before coming to the key verse, verse 20, which says that God will reconcile all things to Himself through Jesus Christ.” I never knew that before, and I thought that it was such an amazing and beautiful proof of universal reconciliation!
I would appreciate it if anyone could tell me if Ray ever addressed this aspect of these verses, and I would welcome any comments or thoughts that anyone might have on this.
Your brother in Christ,
Randy
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 12:25:06 PM by repottinger »
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Rene

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 06:36:53 PM »


I was wondering if anyone knows if Ray ever addressed this aspect of these verses, and I would welcome any comments or thoughts that anyone might have on this.


Hi Randy,

Ray did a bible study entitled "Does All Mean All?" and touched on these verses.  Here is the link to the bible study, if you have not listened to it, and an except from the transcript:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5605.0.html

"Who would think that this proves that Christ Himself would be subject unto the Father, “that God may be all in all.” How does that prove all human are going to be saved. We have the same word ‘all’ that's the word ‘pas.’ Here’s why, you can’t say that the first ‘all’ means absolutely all, but the next ‘all,’ these right together, means something totally different, you can’t do that. God does not speak in such convoluted deceitful ways in His word, if you say the second ‘all,’ that’s all humanity doesn’t mean all. Then you have to also conclude that when God says, “that He may be all,” that God Himself is not all. Who would suggest that God is not all, that He is lacking, He’s not all that He wants to be or whatever, only partly. It’s nonsense. Well whatever the all is, meaning that God is complete and that’s what it’s talking about, completeness, being made whole. Like it says in Colossians, “we are made perfect in Christ” complete, we are complete in Him, mature, whole. Whatever God is, is what He will be in. That God may be all, that’s what He is, that’s not us now, God will be all. Well if God is all and He is all, being all, be all, it’s the same thing He’s going to be in us. It can’t be just in part, you can’t say God will be all in part of humanity, you can’t say that. So even a simple verse like that, “God… all in all” absolutely proves all humanity is included."
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Rolihlahla

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2015, 06:49:37 PM »

I read in one email from Ray.He was replying to a detractor and he(ray) used this verse as a reference to show that Jesus will save the Devil-I never saw that in this verse before,I was just reading over the words.Amazing!!

If you want to be called the biggest heretic,tell christians"Jesus is going to save Satan."They will laugh at you even if you show them the verse right in their bibles-Unbelievable!!Oh well,we can't be too hard on them,we were also once there!
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“You offer assistance to the impious, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord. And for this reason, you certainly deserve the wrath of the Lord."

repottinger

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2015, 08:05:35 PM »

Thank you very much, Rene; I know that I had read over that study before, but I didn't realize that it referred to the Colossians passage, and I'll be sure to read it again more carefully.
Thanks again so much.
Randy
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repottinger

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2015, 08:09:52 PM »

Thanks a lot for the comments, Nelson; I definitely know what you mean about having "been there." If it wasn't for my having read writers like Ray on the subject, I certainly can't imagine my ever possibly figuring out the truth of the salvation of all by myself!
Randy
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Ian 155

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 07:55:45 AM »

Thanks a lot for the comments, Nelson; I definitely know what you mean about having "been there." If it wasn't for my having read writers like Ray on the subject, I certainly can't imagine my ever possibly figuring out the truth of the salvation of all by myself!
Randy


 ;D   ;D  ...God does work in strange ways
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Extol

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 11:03:48 AM »

Hi Randy, 

I recommend listening to the teaching Rene mentioned, Does All Mean All? http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

I remember clicking on this audio when it first came out in 2007, and I thought it would be Ray going through the Scriptures that use the word ALL to prove God will save ALL. But surprisingly, the answer is No, all does not always mean all. For example, Mark 1:5 says And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. Obviously not every person went out, but it says the word all (same Greek word as used in the "salvation of all" passages.) Ray points out the Greek word for all (pas) can also mean "as many as..." :

Col 1:20  And through Him having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile all things to Himself through Him, whether the things on earth or the things in Heaven.

Okay what is the word in there that suggests He will save all? All - pas. He will save as many as. See here’s how a theologian commentary might go on that. “having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile ALL…” that’s the Greek word pas - as many as come to Him, accept Him, receive His sacrifice, etc., that’s how many, pas - all - as many as do what they have to do.


The point of the study is that even without the phrases that say ALL (1 Tim. 2:4, 4:10, etc.), the Scriptures still clearly teach that God will save all.
And thus, the verses that do say God will save all must mean every last person, in order to harmonize with the Scriptures that don't use the word all.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 04:13:12 PM by Extol »
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repottinger

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 03:48:37 PM »

Absolutely, Ian--I couldn't agree more!
Randy
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repottinger

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2015, 03:52:40 PM »

Thank you for the suggestion and the great explanation, Extol; the point of the article as described by you is exactly the way I remember it. As I think I mentioned earlier, I definitely have to go back and re-read it (as well as listen to the audio--I'm really not that big on doing that, but I'm sure that it would be very helpful in furthering my understanding).
Randy
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Rolihlahla

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 09:31:24 AM »

I remember telling one of my friends that Jesus will save the devil one day.He replied:"So one day I'm going to see the devil and say,so you the ******* that has been deceiving me all my life?"

I didn't even know how to respond to him,I chuckled a bit coz of how he put it.
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“You offer assistance to the impious, and you are joined in friendship with those who hate the Lord. And for this reason, you certainly deserve the wrath of the Lord."

repottinger

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Re: A very good point concerning universal salvation
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 03:58:02 PM »

I agree, Nelson; I think that I'd be at a loss for words to respond to something like that, too!
Randy
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