> General Discussions
Luke 7:45-47
Gina:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on July 15, 2015, 03:07:41 AM ---I think I agree with Kat.. italics and underline my rationale
Those least expected in the kingdom ...
but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. (luk 7 28)
--- End quote ---
Yes, Kat understands where I'm coming from, and I believe Dave does too.
"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
But again, I'm not speaking of those who are called least or great in the Kingdom. I'm speaking about those who will love God more, or most in the end. There was a certain ruler who wanted to do something to inherit eternal life and he didn't lie when he said he kept every commandment of God, but knew he was still lacking:
Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing you lack: go your way, sell whatsoever you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
And he went away from Jesus grieving because he couldn't part with his worldly riches.
So here is a man who will be called least in the kingdom, and yet he is called greater than John the Baptist, I guess. But that "greatness" doesn't mean he loved God more. He loved his earthly riches more. And boy I think many of us can easily relate to that man.
I really love the way the text says that Jesus looked at him and loved him and said...
Someone asked me what love is or what it looks like. I suppose it wouldn't have really been very loving of Jesus to say, Okay, well you're pretty close so you can come on into the kingdom and you can take your riches with you, knowing full well that the ruler would have nearly killed himself trying to squeeze through the narrow gate with all that gold in his pockets. He might have taken out the gate or made it wider in order to get in, ya know? And it would have no longer been very hard for rich men to enter into the kingdom of God. Love isn't like that though, I guess.
(And yes, I know this isn't talking about a literal gate. I know it's symbolism or metaphors or idioms-- what the heck is that? haha! I have to go look that up..... )
Kat:
--- Quote from: Gina on July 15, 2015, 10:14:47 AM ---
Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing you lack: go your way, sell whatsoever you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
And he went away from Jesus grieving because he couldn't part with his worldly riches.
So here is a man who will be called least in the kingdom, and yet he is called greater than John the Baptist, I guess. But that "greatness" doesn't mean he loved God more. He loved his earthly riches more. And boy I think many of us can easily relate to that man.
--- End quote ---
I think Jesus "loved" this rich man, because he was trying to be righteous, when Jesus ask him about the commandments his answer was "Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth." So he was a 'good' Jew, but when Jesus told him what was required to follow Him, he was not able to comply... none of us can, it takes God drawing us to Christ (John 6:44).
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Then salvation can only be given "through" Christ's AFTER His sacrifice, so that leaves John the Baptist out.
Mat 11:11 "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
So John the Baptist cannot be in the first resurrection and enter the kingdom at Christ return, because John died before Christ was our sacrifice, therefore "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." At least that's the way I look at what Christ was saying about John, considering He had just said "among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
--- Quote from: Kat on July 15, 2015, 11:25:01 AM ---
--- Quote from: Gina on July 15, 2015, 10:14:47 AM ---
Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing you lack: go your way, sell whatsoever you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
And he went away from Jesus grieving because he couldn't part with his worldly riches.
So here is a man who will be called least in the kingdom, and yet he is called greater than John the Baptist, I guess. But that "greatness" doesn't mean he loved God more. He loved his earthly riches more. And boy I think many of us can easily relate to that man.
--- End quote ---
I think Jesus "loved" this rich man, because he was trying to be righteous, when Jesus ask him about the commandments his answer was "Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth." So he was a 'good' Jew, but when Jesus told him what was required to follow Him, he was not able to comply... none of us can, it takes God drawing us to Christ (John 6:44).
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Then salvation can only be given "through" Christ's AFTER His sacrifice, so that leaves John the Baptist out.
Mat 11:11 "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
So John the Baptist cannot be in the first resurrection and enter the kingdom at Christ return, because John died before Christ was our sacrifice, therefore "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." At least that's the way I look at what Christ was saying about John, considering He had just said "among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
I thought being in the kingdom of God and being the first resurrection weren't the same things, especially, since there would be some who would be considered least.
And I thought Jesus was saying that a person would be considered to be great or least in the Kingdom of God not based on when they lived and died relative to Jesus' death and resurrection, but based upon what they taught and how they kept Jesus' commandments.
"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
"among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
I don't see where Jesus ever said John wasn't in the kingdom of heaven. Where does it say that the people only enter the kingdom of Heaven in the future?
52"Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."
20Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is [present tense] in your midst."
I don't know, maybe I'm mistaken, but it sounds like all Jesus said was that, John, as great as he was and as far as he had risen, was not as great as someone who was considered least ... in the kingdom (or someone who "then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same.")
I'm not sure why that they would be considered greater than John the Baptist. This is what I thought: I thought it might have had something to do with the fact that John doubted that Jesus was the Messiah, but I don't know really.
Jesus said during his ministry (before he died and resurrected) that tax collectors and prostitutes were entering in the Kingdom ahead of the Pharisees. Maybe I need to study that out more. But I was of the belief that the Kingdom of God was with Jesus from the very start of His earthly ministry and that people were already entering into it.
Sorry, I hope that made sense. (Mods, if this is teaching or I'm out of line here, I won't be hurt if this post is removed or my thread is locked. I hope it won't have to come to that. Hopefully I'm not doing any harm here.)
Gina:
Maybe the reason the least in the Kingdom of Heaven will be considered greater than John the Baptist is because John was imprisoned and didn't get to hear all of Jesus' sermons and "the commands" of Jesus and maybe he was still reasoning in the old way under the old code or something? I don't know. I haven't really studied that to be honest. It's always interested me though. It'd be neat if God would give us wisdom to figure it out if it is His will. We could pray for wisdom about that.
Gina:
One more thought. I thought Jesus said that whoever wanted to be greatest in the kingdom must be servant of all (or last):
25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. 26"It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." Matthew 10
42Calling them to Himself, Jesus said to them, "You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great men exercise authority over them. 43"But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; 44and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all Mark 10
Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "Anyone who wants to be first (greatest) must be the very last, and the servant of all." Mark 9:35
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