> General Discussions
Luke 7:45-47
Ian 155:
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No, I don't believe forgiveness equals love. Not to say that it is not a loving thing to do.
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forgiveness is one of the attributes...there is a bit more involved though, ;)
1Co 13:4 Love is patient, is kind. Love is not jealous. Love is not bragging, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 is not indecent, is not self-seeking, is not incensed, is not taking account of evil,
1Co 13:6 is not rejoicing in injustice, yet is rejoicing together with the truth,
1Co 13:7 is forgoing all, is believing all, is expecting all, is enduring all."
1Co 13:8 Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it will be discarded."
Kat:
--- Quote from: Gina on July 13, 2015, 07:55:09 PM ---42 When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.”
I see it like this: He was saying that because the woman recognized how great her sin was that she could love Him (not others, not this Pharisee) more because she could see for herself that her sin (against God alone have we sinned)) was greater than this Pharisee's.
I believe if anything is a sign of love for God and our Lord and Savior, it would be repentance of sins, not forgiveness. After all, thieves and robbers love (forgive) thieves and robbers. Repentance of sins is a greater sign of love for God than forgiveness of other sinners, because it leads to God's good works (kissing [symbolically] the feet of your Lord and Savior-over and over and weeping over past sins and feeling great joy over having been set free to do right -- even in the presence of those who would condemn you for loving Jesus so much).
I guess I'm just really thinking of the future of those men and women who are similar to this woman, who will one day recognize how much they have sinned and how much they have been forgiven and when I think of how much they will love the Lord and His ways and in turn HIS PEOPLE, it just gives me the warm and fuzzies.
I have been watching testimonies of ex-gays and ex-porn stars, and man do they love God. Unlike this Pharisee, I am thrilled beyond measure to see them loving God so much (by repenting of their sin and trusting Him with their lives in the face of so much hostility).
I probably didn't say that right, but I bet some can see where I'm coming from.
--- End quote ---
Hi Gina, I've wondered about this too. When you think that there are some who have indeed been extreme vessels of dishonor, such as; Kim Il Sung, Hitler, Nero, Attila the Hun, Vlad the Impaler, etc, there were so many... what could possibly set such a diabolical life right? Now when these finally have their eyes open to the truth, repent and understand just how evil a life they lived in this age. I mean when they realize there is no free will and God is sovereign, He is the ultimate cause for who they/we are, clay in the Potter's hands, how can they bear who they were?
Will it be, as you were saying, that the forgiveness/mercy for them will be so great and they will comprehend the greatness of it, so that their love for God will be in proportion to the amount of forgiveness/mercy He shows them? Thus they can understand/accept the wretched evil lives that they lived as a necessary part of the plan for this age, repent and actually desire salvation and cleansing? Will this abundance of grace that justifies such people give them a greater sense of appreciation and love towards God? Maybe that degree of love from and towards God and the joy it entails is enough recompense...
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
--- Quote from: Kat on July 14, 2015, 12:25:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Gina on July 13, 2015, 07:55:09 PM ---42 When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.”
I see it like this: He was saying that because the woman recognized how great her sin was that she could love Him (not others, not this Pharisee) more because she could see for herself that her sin (against God alone have we sinned)) was greater than this Pharisee's.
I believe if anything is a sign of love for God and our Lord and Savior, it would be repentance of sins, not forgiveness. After all, thieves and robbers love (forgive) thieves and robbers. Repentance of sins is a greater sign of love for God than forgiveness of other sinners, because it leads to God's good works (kissing [symbolically] the feet of your Lord and Savior-over and over and weeping over past sins and feeling great joy over having been set free to do right -- even in the presence of those who would condemn you for loving Jesus so much).
I guess I'm just really thinking of the future of those men and women who are similar to this woman, who will one day recognize how much they have sinned and how much they have been forgiven and when I think of how much they will love the Lord and His ways and in turn HIS PEOPLE, it just gives me the warm and fuzzies.
I have been watching testimonies of ex-gays and ex-porn stars, and man do they love God. Unlike this Pharisee, I am thrilled beyond measure to see them loving God so much (by repenting of their sin and trusting Him with their lives in the face of so much hostility).
I probably didn't say that right, but I bet some can see where I'm coming from.
--- End quote ---
Hi Gina, I've wondered about this too. When you think that there are some who have indeed been extreme vessels of dishonor, such as; Kim Il Sung, Hitler, Nero, Attila the Hun, Vlad the Impaler, etc, there were so many... what could possibly set such a diabolical life right? Now when these finally have their eyes open to the truth, repent and understand just how evil a life they lived in this age. I mean when they realize there is no free will and God is sovereign, He is the ultimate cause for who they/we are, clay in the Potter's hands, how can they bear who they were?
Will it be, as you were saying, that the forgiveness/mercy for them will be so great and they will comprehend the greatness of it, so that their love for God will be in proportion to the amount of forgiveness/mercy He shows them? Thus they can understand/accept the wretched evil lives that they lived as a necessary part of the plan for this age, repent and actually desire salvation and cleansing? Will this abundance of grace that justifies such people give them a greater sense of appreciation and love towards God? Maybe that degree of love from and towards God and the joy it entails is enough recompense...
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Right! Thank you for clearing that up. That's perfectly said.
rick:
Nice thread Gina, I’m surprise it hasn’t been locked yet.
Dave in Tenn:
Mat 21:28 `And what think ye? A man had two children, and having come to the first, he said, Child, go, to-day be working in my vineyard.'
Mat 21:29 And he answering said, `I will not,' but at last, having repented, he went.
Mat 21:30 `And having come to the second, he said in the same manner, and he answering said, I go , sir, and went not;
Mat 21:31 which of the two did the will of the father?' They say to him, `The first.' Jesus saith to them, `Verily I say to you, that the tax-gatherers and the harlots do go before you into the reign of God,
Mat 21:32 for John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye did not believe him, and the tax-gatherers and the harlots did believe him, and ye, having seen, repented not at last--to believe him.
Mat 21:33 `Hear ye another simile: There was a certain man, a householder, who planted a vineyard, and did put a hedge round it, and digged in it a wine-press, and built a tower, and gave it out to husbandmen, and went abroad.
Mat 21:34 `And when the season of the fruits came nigh, he sent his servants unto the husbandmen, to receive the fruits of it,
Mat 21:35 and the husbandmen having taken his servants, one they scourged, and one they killed, and one they stoned.
Mat 21:36 `Again he sent other servants more than the first, and they did to them in the same manner.
Mat 21:37 `And at last he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son;
Mat 21:38 and the husbandmen having seen the son, said among themselves, This is the heir, come, we may kill him, and may possess his inheritance;
Mat 21:39 and having taken him, they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him;
Mat 21:40 whenever therefore the lord of the vineyard may come, what will he do to these husbandmen?'
Mat 21:41 They say to him, `Evil men--he will evilly destroy them, and the vineyard will give out to other husbandmen, who will give back to him the fruits in their seasons.'
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith to them, `Did ye never read in the Writings, A stone that the builders disallowed, it became head of a corner; from the Lord hath this come to pass, and it is wonderful in our eyes.
Mat 21:43 `Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit;
Mat 21:44 and he who is falling on this stone shall be broken, and on whomsoever it may fall it will crush him to pieces.'
Mat 21:45 And the chief priests and the Pharisees having heard his similes, knew that of them he speaketh,
Mat 21:46 and seeking to lay hold on him, they feared the multitudes, seeing they were holding him as a prophet.
It may not be that every single 'harlot and tax-collector' will come into the reign before the first 'chief priest and pharisee' (witness Saul/Paul) but they do have the advantage, though almost nobody really believes it. I think this is what the statement "it is better to be cold than luke-warm" means.
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