> General Discussions
Persecution
virginiabm:
Hi all. what is real persecution? When Jesus walked this earth as a jewish man no one every touched him to hurt him. They wanted to, but the Father would not let them. When Jesus said if they have persecuted me they will persecute you, he had not died and risen yet in His glory.
When He was beaten and hung on that tree, He did it all for us at Our Father request, to save us from our sins. Sure that was persection, but it was for us. We on the other hand, die daily to the flesh so we become like Him in Spirit. It is an enter and outer process, because God changes us on the inside and it shows on the outside.
The is just how I see it in veiw of what I read and study. I hope I have not offended anyone with my understanding.
Virginia
Nelson Boils:
Hi Virginia
You say: "When Jesus said if they have persecuted me they will persecute you, he had not died and risen yet in His glory."
Comment:You are right,"he had not died and risen yet in His glory,"but they had already tried to kill Him.
John 8:59 NIV "..,they picked up stones to stone Him,but Jesus hid Himself..."
As to what real persecution is?
Answer: Like Ray says:"Look up the word "persecution" in any dictionary and then ask yourself if that definition is happening to you? If not, then you may not be"living godly in Christ Jesus."
and
John 11:7-8 NIV "Then he said to his disciples,"Let us go back to Judea."But Rabbi,"they said,"a short while ago the Jews tried to stone you,and yet you are going back there?"
So Jesus experienced persecution before He got crucified.I mean imagine people wanting to kill you for saying the right thing.Hectic!
Matthew 5:11 NIV."Blessed are you when people INSULT(does it happen to you?)you,persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.Rejoice and be glad,because great is your reward in heaven,for in the same way they persecuted the PROPHETS who were before you."
Check what happened to Jeremiah
Jeremiah 20:7 NIV."...I am ridiculed all day long;everyone mocks me."
Jeremiah 20:8 NIV."...So the word of the Lord has brought me INSULT and reproach..."
This persecution WILL come to all elects,unless one is living in a shell,then it won't come.
PERSECU'TION, n. The act or practice of persecuting; the infliction of pain, punishment or death upon others unjustly, particularly for adhering to a religious creed or mode of worship, either by way of penalty or for compelling them to renounce their principles.
Kat:
When Jesus preached on earth, He was introducing a whole 'new' religion to the world. His Apostles continued to teach this new and different way to worship and serve God. Paul even told them that he was proclaiming to them "the unknown God."
Acts 17:23 For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, 'To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.
This Romans empire controlled that region and this new/different religion was foreign to them, they looked on it with suspicion, in a negative sense. The Romans did tolerate other religions, but only so far as it was known to be old and in line with the ancient customs and not threatening. But these new teachings of Jesus and from the Apostles were regarded with much distrust (mainly stirred up by the Pharisees) and was not anything they had heard before.
Because most the Jews were so hostile against Christ and the Apostles' teaching of Him, the first believers were forced to meet in secret, which only added to suspicions of them. If you read some about the history of the earliest believers they were so misunderstood that they were actually suspected of all sorts of incredible immorality. So the persecution that they faced in that time was completely different then most face today.
Many of us live in America which the very first amendment of the constitution protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. Those first believer had no such protection. Religious tolerance is so practiced now, that you might be looked on as a cult or weird for your beliefs, but really not threatened... of course there are exceptions to this in some countries, as santgem spoke of.
Ray stood up and exposed the church for what it was, that was a commission that God gave to him, that brought on persecution for sure, (another definition of persecute - to cause to suffer because of belief), he suffered verbal attacks, but did anybody ever try to hurt him physically? I don't think so. The Apostles were given a commission too...
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
v. 16 He who believes and is baptized (into His death, Rom 6:3) will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
So the Apostles were going out as witnesses to what they had seen with their own eyes, they were starting the church built on the Rock... being with Jesus for those years would have given them a great degree of knowledge, confidence and courage from the Spirit to do what they did. They were in that very hostile environment which did bring on severe persecution and even death to all, but John.
They were given a commission to take the gospel to the world... guess what? Actually the false church has completed that job. Even though the church has carried out many atrocious acts in taking the gospel to the world, the gospel is known to the ends of the earth because of them... don't forget that is where the very elect come from.
So is the world the same for us today as it was in that first century? No. Should we push our beliefs on others, because they need to know the truth... that certainly could bring us persecution. But Peter tells us we should defend our beliefs if somebody "asks you a reason for the hope that is in you."
1Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
Living a godly life - dying daily, does bring trials and tribulation, Jesus told us that would happen in John 16:33. I dare say that if we went out to teach/preach this truth to the world, as Ray did, we would be persecuted to a greater degree, as Ray was? But is every single elect called to go out an witness and preach to the world? No, I don't think so, there are many different gifts in the body.
1Cor 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
v. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
v. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
v. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
v. 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
v. 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
v. 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
v. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
v. 12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
dave:
--- Quote from: Nelson Boils on August 07, 2015, 08:59:17 AM ---Hi Virginia
You say: "When Jesus said if they have persecuted me they will persecute you, he had not died and risen yet in His glory."
Comment:You are right,"he had not died and risen yet in His glory,"but they had already tried to kill Him.
John 8:59 NIV "..,they picked up stones to stone Him,but Jesus hid Himself..."
As to what real persecution is?
Answer: Like Ray says:"Look up the word "persecution" in any dictionary and then ask yourself if that definition is happening to you? If not, then you may not be"living godly in Christ Jesus."
and
John 11:7-8 NIV "Then he said to his disciples,"Let us go back to Judea."But Rabbi,"they said,"a short while ago the Jews tried to stone you,and yet you are going back there?"
So Jesus experienced persecution before He got crucified.I mean imagine people wanting to kill you for saying the right thing.Hectic!
Matthew 5:11 NIV."Blessed are you when people INSULT(does it happen to you?)you,persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.Rejoice and be glad,because great is your reward in heaven,for in the same way they persecuted the PROPHETS who were before you."
Check what happened to Jeremiah
Jeremiah 20:7 NIV."...I am ridiculed all day long;everyone mocks me."
Jeremiah 20:8 NIV."...So the word of the Lord has brought me INSULT and reproach..."
This persecution WILL come to all elects,unless one is living in a shell,then it won't come.
PERSECU'TION, n. The act or practice of persecuting; the infliction of pain, punishment or death upon others unjustly, particularly for adhering to a religious creed or mode of worship, either by way of penalty or for compelling them to renounce their principles.
--- End quote ---
Dictionary.. Persecute to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
Persecute….G1377 to pursue (literally or figuratively); by implication to persecute: - ensue, follow (after), given to, (suffer) persecute (-ion), press toward.
Thayer Definition: 1) to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away 2) to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
H7291
BDB Definition:
1) to be behind, follow after, pursue, persecute, run after
Strongs H7291 A primitive root; to run after (usually with hostile intent; figuratively (of time) gone by): - chase, put to flight, follow (after, on), hunt, (be under) persecute (-ion, -or), pursue (-r).
santgem:
I was identified as disbeliever for believing and follower of Christ. I have been working in Saudi Arabia, the core of Muslim country. Muslim treated the Jew and Christian their enemies. There are a lot more verses that saying not to make peace with their enemy, so there will be no peace on earth. No peace on earth! Let us just wait our Saviour.
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. Qura’n 5:51
They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, Qura’n 4:89
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. Qura’n 9:29
And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! Qura’n 9:30
When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. Qura’n 8:12
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version